Pensions to rise with inflation - but what about working people???

[doris9034]

BBC Website: "Liz Truss and Chancellor Jeremy Hunt jointly agreed to guarantee that the state pension rises with inflation next year - thereby maintaining the "triple lock" - ahead of PMQs this morning, Downing Street says.
In a huddle with reporters after PMQs, the prime minister's official spokesman said the decision reflected the "unique position" of pensioners who are "unable to increase their earnings through work"

But I - and millions of others - are also unable to "increase our earnings through work" because we are in the middle income bracket, our employers do not have the capacity to raise our earnings in line with inflation and we don't qualify for any state related benefits.

So, whilst I 100% don't begrudge the helping of pensioners (many of whom are probably among the better off anyway), I can't help but feeling a bit annoyed that it always seems to be the ordinary working person / family that never gets any respite from the ever increasing cost of living.

at the same time, working hard needs to pay off more than not working as hard

So how do you reconcile that with means testing pensions? Working hard means you lose your state pension? It’s two completely contradictory positions.

Some of the today's pensioners don't appear to care very much about anyone else.

Isn’t that just as much true for younger generations? Look at the threads about people, who knowingly go to work or send their children to school with Covid? Their attitude is “I can’t afford to lose a day’s pay. I put my family first. I don’t care if as a result, the whole class, all their parents and the staff are off sick, or vulnerable people are seriously ill with Covid!”

You're comparing the fact that people can't afford to take a sick day, to paying ever increasing benefits to people with plenty of money. Ridiculous.

Some of the today's pensioners don't appear to care very much about anyone else.

Some of every demographic don't care about anyone else. Or any way you choose to slice up society, there will be people who don't care about anyone else. What a ridiculous thing to say.

You're comparing the fact that people can't afford to take a sick day, to paying ever increasing benefits to people with plenty of money. Ridiculous.

You’re assuming that all pensioners have plenty of money. Ridiculous. The average UK pension is £15k a year.

www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pensions-retirement/what-is-the-average-uk-retirement-income

You're comparing the fact that people can't afford to take a sick day, to paying ever increasing benefits to people with plenty of money. Ridiculous.

No, I am not - I am saying it’s hypocrisy to call the elderly selfish, while some of the younger generations are equally selfish!

There are dickheads of every age, its true.

But... I know there are many exceptions (my 70+ parents would sooner gnaw their own arms off than vote tory), but it is notable that it is primarily the older generations voting for this current shitshow of a government.

You know, the government that is keen to dismantle workers rights, end our commitments to the Human Rights Act, keep public sector wages low, continue austerity, prop up house prices at any cost, send asylum seekers to Rwanda...

The 2019 election stats were pretty stark:
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/10/31/2019-general-election-demographics-dividing-britai

It seems that age 40 is the tipping point. Thank god I don't seem to have been affected yet.

This is a thread about pensions. Someone having to go to work sick so they can pay the rent isn't relevant.

When did I say all?

No put the threshold for qualifying for means tested, so that those who don't 'need' it, do they it. I'm not talking about denying those that need it. The actual figures of what the threshold entails, that's the number crunching part.

Who decides who “needs” it? It’s a moot point anyway because nobody with an iota of common sense or foresight would ever support it. I remember one of my aunts saying in the 60s when I was a child “There will be no pensions soon”, yet here I am decades later drawing mine.

Actually it is. It is an absolute travesty that working people are unable to afford to take time to recover from illness. That shouldn't be the case in a civilised society. It's part of the wider economic and social picture which is driving this debate.

I am in favour of keeping inflation based increases for pensions, because the basic state pension is a pittance to live on. Means testing (e.g. for those with incomes above £50k) is a separate question, I'm undecided on that.

What I am angry about is that years of ideologically-driven austerity and erosion of workers rights have left working people in such an awful position. It should be possible for two adults working in low wage jobs (which are just as essential to society as high wage jobs!) to support a family and have some money left for leisure. Right now, that isn't the case amd that is something to be angry about.

And that demographic will be similar in 10 years' time as it was 10 years ago. There's plenty of research out there showing that younger people (of each generation) tend to vote Labour but they change their political colours as they get older.

What I am angry about is that years of ideologically-driven austerity and erosion of workers rights have left working people in such an awful position. It should be possible for two adults working in low wage jobs (which are just as essential to society as high wage jobs!) to support a family and have some money left for leisure. Right now, that isn't the case amd that is something to be angry about.

Couldn’t agree more. Which is why the race to the bottom on this thread is so insane. And why I’ve never voted Tory and never would if they increased my pension to £20k a year. Mind, it would make the local foodbank very happy.

There's plenty of research out there showing that younger people (of each generation) tend to vote Labour

Or the research which shows that younger people can’t be bothered to vote at all.

Statistically older people vote more conscientiously than younger. They/we learn that it matters to shape the society you want. And they vote for what will suit them best.

Don’t be silly, the moaners won’t have anyone to look after their children!

@Lemonlady22

osprey24
Why don't we just put everyone over 67 in a gas chamber and save the younger ones the stress of paying for the pensions. Oh! but the gas would cost too much! so you still wouldn't be happy.
I'm 68 by the way, and not rich with only the state pension.

Don’t be silly, the moaners won’t have anyone to look after their children!

+++++

If you have read the numerous posts regarding grandparents not willing or not interested in providing childcare services to their grandchildren you would see that at least half of parents manage with such support.

No one is suggesting gas chambers or should extreme nonsense . But it seems generationally selfish to burden the younger generations with high taxes to pay for an underfunded state pension scheme that in truth the same younger generation will never get to receive or at least on the same terms.

In short the younger generation are being asked to sacrifice their tomorrows so that the older generation can have their todays.

In short the younger generation are being asked to sacrifice their tomorrows so that the older generation can have their todays

It was ever thus, much as I find your misappropriation and cheapening of that phrase deeply distasteful.

Shocking.

Catch yourself on.

In short the younger generation are being asked to sacrifice their tomorrows so that the older generation can have their todays

Im 58. Started working in 1987. I paid for WW2 until 2006. Big deal. We just did it.

Your statement is true for everyone since the birth of the welfare state and WW2. . Actually probably since WW1They all had to be funded.

So I’ve paid for your parent’s nhs, your school, your nhs, your children’s school and their nhs?

If you’re that concerned maybe you should pay some back? Then those ‘old’ people won’t be leeching off you will they?

But the point is that younger people are paying more for older people to have better retirements than they will ever be able to have themselves. And the entire point of the thread was that pensions are the only benefit that is going to rise in line with inflation. Those for younger people, including disabled people are not rising. Neither are wages. And has been stated quite a few times, the over 65's are currently the most wealthy demographic, and probably have less costs since they don't have to pay for childcare or mortgages. So hoe I'd it fair they get the raise but nobody else?

You’re missing the point spectacularly. It’s far easier to contribute to things like the national debt when your mortgage is cheap and your wages comparatively high. Not rocket science is it?

But the point is that younger people are paying more for older people to have better retirements than they will ever be able to have themselves

But you don’t know for sure. Europe has much better pensions than the U.K. Is the entire continent and the U.K. going to dissemble their pensions? What if we get a progressive government who want to support pensions rather than destroy them?
What if they aspire to European models, and aim for higher pensions on retirement.

l think a lot of this is based on the misery of this shit government who slash everything. It’s not old people who are at fault, it’s governmental policies. I don’t remember anything like this when Blair was in power. It won’t last for ever. History goes in cycles

I know there are fewer young people who contribute due to demographics, but the answer was immigration, which this government kicked into touch.

I’m still paying to support the ones above me. Just like everyone else we’ve been squeezed to death with heating bills and inflation. But this isn’t about older people, this is about shit governments and shit planning.

l never hear my Millennial Ds and dsd’s speaking like this. They’ve been screwed over by student loans, house prices, but they don’t complain about paying NI.