Pensions to rise with inflation - but what about working people???

[doris9034]

BBC Website: "Liz Truss and Chancellor Jeremy Hunt jointly agreed to guarantee that the state pension rises with inflation next year - thereby maintaining the "triple lock" - ahead of PMQs this morning, Downing Street says.
In a huddle with reporters after PMQs, the prime minister's official spokesman said the decision reflected the "unique position" of pensioners who are "unable to increase their earnings through work"

But I - and millions of others - are also unable to "increase our earnings through work" because we are in the middle income bracket, our employers do not have the capacity to raise our earnings in line with inflation and we don't qualify for any state related benefits.

So, whilst I 100% don't begrudge the helping of pensioners (many of whom are probably among the better off anyway), I can't help but feeling a bit annoyed that it always seems to be the ordinary working person / family that never gets any respite from the ever increasing cost of living.

Thats amazing, it's 65 for nurses now , mine is down as 68 .

And its shit for you i agree

Well, there were severe labour shortages in the 60s and 70s, so I doubt employers could afford to be that fussy.

But they were. It’s highly insulting to question the word of people who were there. It’s difficult to overstate the degree of prejudice against women in the workplace back then. Society has changed beyond all recognition in the last 50-60 years.

Did you read my post? I did say I wouldn’t propose it morally. But it was ridiculous of that poster to say it would be hard to tell the difference between someone with state pension + £40K, and state pension only.

That’s what happens anyway. We all pay income tax. More than half my state pension goes straight back in income tax - as it should.

Then why do you not understand the frustration? We're maintaining your generations pensions while things get steadily shitter for everyone else.
We're allowed to complain that things are unfair without wanting pensioners to be destitute for God's sake

And let’s not forget that anyone with a £40K non-state pension (probably greater, as it’s an inherited spousal pension) will have had a fuckton of tax relief in creating that pension. So maybe they’re due to be “taxed” again by receiving less state pension.

I don’t want that - it would be personally bad for me - but I think it’s a fair discussion.

Should we abandon tax relief on pension contributions (altogether, or over £x annually) but not means test state pension?

Or continue to give really generous tax relief to high earners, but tell them they’re paying tax another way - through a lower state pension?

Then on top of that you will receive the state pension which is being paid for by people who cannot afford to buy, who live in rented homes, who have student loans and who cannot afford to retire themselves until the age of 67 at least. Then that pension that they are paying for is subject to the triple lock which their benefits or pay are not. Surely you can see where the resentment is coming from?

If those people are net beneficiaries of the welfare state, as the bottom 50% of the population are; then they shouldn’t be resentful, because they are not paying for other people’s pensions! They are not even paying for what they get, in terms of education for children, the NHS, public services, etc.

IIRC, the state pension in the UK is one of the lowest in the West, and the triple lock is a slow way, of increasing the pension closer towards, what people get in other countries like France or Germany. This is surely the mark of a civilised society.

If people aren’t happy with benefits levels, that is a separate issue - and it would be much better to not vote Tory next time; because all they care about is the wealthy elite. Abolishing offshore tax havens, many of which were British, would be a start!

Totally agree.we shouldn't be racing to the bottom, but demanding better for everyone.

The government controls public sector pay, benefits and pensions - all of these should be rising with inflation. Our pension is among the lowest in Europe, and ourpublic sector workers are underpaid for what they do.

Unless we pay workers properly, we won't be able to recruit or retain them, and I don't want to see the wider NHS go the same way that dentistry has.

And I'm not a pensioner - I'm working age, with many years left to go.

Why don't pensioners who are still working pay NI?

I know, I’m sick of hearing it - it’s a boomer mantra

Exactly. ‘Worked hard all their lives’ well the men until 55 and in the case of half the women, not since their mid 20s.

The state pensions in many other European countries work completely differently to ours , it would be comparing apples to electric cars. They are like private pensions but looked after by the state with alot of other variables.

If non working pensioners paid NI the link between contributions and pensions would have to be broken. The concept of qualifying years for a pension would become nonsense. That would mean everyone getting a state pension even if they’d never paid a penny in NI. Is that what you want? Working pensioners pay NI, younger people who don’t work don’t pay NI.

Today you’d be called a benefit scrounger or layabout (not what I think, but highlighting the double standards).

What I want is to eradicate the state pension altogether; and pensioners go on the same as our-of-work or disability benefits (without encouragement back to work obviously, only qualifier being age).

The concept of qualifying years for a pension would become nonsense.

But it is already nonsense, I paid NI since 17 but can't get my state pension at 52. The new health & social levy was going to be paid by working pensioners, I thought that was sensible.

Are SAHPs called benefit scroungers or layabouts?

Exactly this. Do remember women were not allowed to run marathons until 1983 so imagine what it was like in employment.

I paid for 46 years and had my pension date knocked back twice. The link isn’t nonsense because qualifying years are a minimum, not a limit.

Honestly that's how it should be. The motivation for working should be a better standard of living, a secure home and a decent pension at a reasonable age. Now the young can't rely on a decent private pension, state pension is seeming like a pipe dream and lots of us can't even rely on home ownership or social housing to make things easier.
People who've never worked spent a lifetime claiming benefits and they continue into retirement. It already happens.

Those posters saying they can’t take their pension until they are 66 etc. You can take it at 55 onwards but you take a huge cut. Perhaps those that are saying they took their pension at 55+ took a significant cut as they had other sources of income or are choosing to work 2 days a week to top it up. All pensions allow this but the Govt is planning to increase this age.

most teachers who retire early go on ill health.
police on the older scheme only had to work 30 years to qualify for their pension. I know for new recruits this has changed. But I’ve got friends in the early 50s who are retiring.

The link isn’t nonsense because qualifying years are a minimum, not a limit.

I disagree, I think the age will keep moving out & be means tested in 20 yrs

The state pensions in many other European countries work completely differently to ours , it would be comparing apples to electric cars. They are like private pensions but looked after by the state with alot of other variables.

Imo, it’s like the frequent debates of “We can’t afford the NHS!” whereby most people in the UK pay for all their healthcare (the NHS) through taxes, compared to other countries where they co pay a percentage of their healthcare, and the state pays the rest. I don’t see the difference between a tax and co payment (or private pension contribution), one is taken off your income before you get it, and the other is taken off your income, after you’ve got it. The only question is how much tax to pay in the UK, to get the healthcare or pensions? The country managed to waste a considerable amount on Covid; which imo would have been better spent improving the lives of the poorest. The state pension is very poor in the UK, imo and many pensioners have lived in food and/or fuel poverty for decades; and that will be even more true this winter.