Dentistry crisis

[Garysmum]

I fully admit to being extremely invested in dentistry and the lack thereof. I have a small mouth had 4 teeth out for braces, wisdom teeth all came through infected and were removed so I started from a less teeth than normal perspective. Bad teeth run in my family and my autoimmune disease seems to have crowned the bad circumstances for my teeth!
I had 2 pulled out in the last 5 years which were irrepairable so on both sides I have one back tooth only. And my back teeth are falling apart.
I have scrimped and saved with no holidays (and I am lucky to be able to do this) to pay for crowns where needed and I will need 2 implants as well when those last back teeth fail. No NHS dentists taking patients near me and I fail a normal payment plan instead I pay a monthly fee to cover check-ups, hygenist and a small % discount on treatment. My work plan (which I would have to pay for) wouldn't take me on as I have too many repairs.
Having seen many people saying on a thread today that they simply can't afford a dentist full stop, I find this utterly horrific.
What happens in an emergency? If you have ever had a really bad dental infection - it's unbearable. I have had pain worse than childbirth and even ended up in A&E after I fainted from dental pain at work (massive infection.) It's not an ongoing niggly pain - it will stop you eating, working and sleeping.
If someone ends up like this and they don't have a dentist and can't afford to pay private fees, what happens then?
I know from my time being treated by max fax in a large hospital, more and more people with dental problems are going to hospital.
I have used finance to pay for work I need as otherwise I'll end up with dentures - so maybe it is vanity? Likewise you could argue that wonky teeth that don't meet the threshold for NHS orthodonist care is vanity.
What can people do?

People will try to medicate with whatever they can get their hands on. People will try their own dentistry. This will cause further problems and they will all end up in a&e. We need to stop treating dental health as if it is separate to the rest of our health - it isn't. There is too much overlap in terms of heart issues, autoimmune conditions, nutrition etc.

Hopefully dentists will start offering better payment plans but I worry people will get into debt/ this will push up prices for dental work.

Its such a fucking disaster.and I feel like it isn't getting the public sympathy it needs false narrative that all dental problems can be prevented.

As a dentist it's atrocious. There is no alternative plan, no back up to recognise the fact that dental health is important,no recognition that people need access to affordable dentistry.

The proposed plans for NHS dentistry according to rumours are with an emphasis on emergency care, there are no plans to invest in NHS dentistry or increase the budget.

The reasons for the NHS denta crisis are complex.

Practices cannot afford to carry out NHS dentistry- for years there has been cross subsidisation with private work but costs have risen the same for all businesses and it's reached a tipping point.

Younger dentists qualify with 5 years of debt and fear of litigation so just don't want to do NHS work where sometimes you are working for nothing. You can see this on threads about healthcare "complain to the GDC, complain to CQC, complain, complain" so they have a point.

Then you have many older dentists like the hospital consultants who are hitting NHS pension lifetime allowance thresholds so they risk high tax bills that negate their working. The goverment when talking about the number of NHS dentists never admit what the whole time equivalent is and apparently 15% of the NHS dentists only do 1 NHS treatment a year.

What can you do?

Write to your MP- there is a debate in Parliament tomorrow encourage your MP to participate- without public outrage NHS dentistry is lost. It will never come back it's bloody expensive to set up and run a dental practice.

Totally agree with millymolly above, also work in dentistry, we need more people to complain to their local MP and NHS England.

There is emergency treatment available, you call 111 during working hours to access the dental line, I had a wisdom tooth extracted that way.

I do now have an nhs dentist but he's very poor, I pay over £20 and in there less than 5 mins, I'm convinced I need a filling but he says not - at my old dentist I got a scrape and quick polish for my band 1 payment. (I see the clients lining up in the waiting room, 10 per hour according to the receptionist, 2 dentists in the practice sharing her, plus 2 nurses. It's a decent income

www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-can-i-access-an-nhs-dentist-in-an-emergency-or-out-of-hours/

Great post. I think it's ridiculous that dentistry has been phased out of the NHS. It is connected with so many other major illnesses. Poor dental hygiene has been linked to diabetes, heart disease, dementia which would cost the NHS a hell of a lot more than a few dental appointments.

DS needs root canal work on one tooth and then to have that tooth capped. Well over £2k!!!! I am wincing at the cost. He's a young adult so I will pay on this occasion but tell him from then on, it's his responsibility.

It is scandalous. My NHS dentist was not seeing anyone at all over lockdown apart from emergencies so myself and kids had no check up for more than 2 years. I therefore joined a private dentist who has agreed to see the children on the NHS. I don't agree with this but felt I had no other choice. luckily I can afford the payments (£15 a month for 2 check ups and 2 hygienist appointments per year) but some members of my family are terrified their dentist is going to go private. I'm in Scotland where the SNP would have you believe that things are better here.

I read somewhere that the lack of available dentists will lead to the rise of mouth cancers not being caught in time, so just another thing to worry about!

There is no lack of dentistry for those who can afford to pay.
I'm having to drive 4 hours back to my previous dentist who is just about affordable as the only dentist who is taking patients on here is not only crap but their fees are astromical and beyond the reach of any normal person.
I have just about had enough of this,

I went to a local dentists in Harwich Essex - was quoted 2k to repair a chipped upper molar and add a back lower bridge. No NHS dentists in this area at all.....so I bought glass isoma permanent filler for the chipped (was actually snapped in half) and so far so good for £30 DIY. I feel I am living in a 3rd world country - lucky it was a tooth and not a kidney etc. Mad situation. PS. this is NOT advice and I am not advocating this - see your dentist - I did for xrays and initial check (£39)

Typo it's called glass ionomer

I complained to nhs England just got a wishy washy response.

It terrifies me!

Im very lucky that my work plan covers me currently with my dentist but having previously suffered horrendous toothache I worry for people without access! Toothache can be some of the worst pain !

I wish NHS England would take the issue seriously

We are moving to York.

I have just had a look and made some calls, and none of the 39 York practices are taking on nhs patients.

We are two adults and two under 4. The children, when at the dentist, barely open their mouths. The youngest one just doesn't. As private patients, I will have to pay £42 each for them not to open their mouths. I believe they don't even give you a sticker any more. When I can pick up part time work, I take home about that much - £80ish per day after tax. A day's work for children not to open their mouths? Should I just not take them until they are about ten?

I asked the receptionist what people on a low income are doing, and she said it was difficult. I'm not sure where to go from here.

Just to add, I've just looked up the cost of private extractions.

When I was 8 I had 8 teeth out for overcrowding. How can anyone afford this for children on a private plan? We truly are the sick man of Europe.

@OhmygodDont what did they say?

Honestly I can’t remember exactly now it was that bad I deleted it.

It was basically no answer with no promises or even any hope of improvement. That they understand people are worried about their dental health and lack of nhs dentists and being unable to afford private treatment.

@SecretWorrier I would call round those practices again and ask about joining privately as a couple as some practices will see under 5s for free and offer discounted rates for under 12s.

People travelling back to their previous areas to see their dentists as they can't join anywhere new is another reason why NHS access is so atrocious.

I wish it was true that there is no shortage if you can pay.
My guest from Ukraine is still waiting for treatment even though we gave up on looking for NHS after a few weeks. She’s been here since the start of May. Had a new patient appointment in July at which they did a temporary filling and made her an appointment for 19th September.
You know what happened on 19th September. So they postponed it to November.
(Just to make things even more frustrating, she had to make an urgent visit home to Kyiv, where things had been pretty quiet for a few months, so she booked an appointment there. You know what happened in Kyiv last week….)

There are however various Ukrainian dentists who have been here months and still can’t work because the process for certifying them is so slow. Ffs.

My dad used to live in Turkey 1/2 off the year with his wife. She got a diagnosis of cancer while they were out there and he said his mind was blown by the medical system over there. She went to see a dr and had a diagnosis within 4 days. She has started treatment within 7 days and he said it really made him realise how far the NHS had fallen. He paid privately and didn't quibble as ours such great value. Even since they moved home ten years ago, the dental shortage had meant that he's been getting a fight back every 6-12 months for a check up and any work to be done by his old Turkish dentist. He even took my uncle with him for the same and they just turn it into a break and visit friends while there.

Very worrying when it's cheaper and easier to travel 4 hours by plane than it is to get an affordable and timely appointment in your own county.