How to rise above narcissistic MIL?

[rocky4321]

I've been writing this post for weeks now. I seem to write a book but never post as it ends as a rant but I actually want/need advice on how to deal with this.

MIL is a narcissist. I did list around 10 big bullet points of her being unreasonable/controlling, but I know she's unreasonable but how do I stop her occupying my headspace? I've given her a lot of free passes and spent months trying to think of things from her perspective to understand why she's acting the way she is but there's no other reason apart from being narcissist/toxic/manipulative/unable to think of others apart from herself.

DP gets upset, the last few months he's been reduced to tears at least once a month by her. She's not accepting that DP has decided to move in with me and we're not prepared to move back to his home town. After months of her guilting us she turned up the heat by telling DP if he's brother (who's had shitty mental health for years) commits suicide it will all be his fault and 'will you be able to live with that on your conscious' as apparently living 90 minutes away is abandoning the family...

Luckily I don't have a DP problem (I've done a LOT of traipsing on previous MIL threads) but he deals with her in a way I can't. He unconsciously uses the grey rock method and uses customer service complaint resolution training on her. Then everything she says after he's collected his tears is 'water of a ducks back' and forgotten the next day.

Her manipulation tactic is to cry, 'I'm just letting you know how unhappy you're making me.....' (when either of us politely refuse her unreasonable demands). She doesn't see reason, care about our happiness/lives, she's extremely nosey, acts the victim, always making a dig, has zero social etiquette, half the time she doesn't even have a point but just wants to be in control. I'm still mad about what she said months ago, and everything just builds, I actually despise her.

Unless I start doing some voodoo she's going to be in our lives for years to come. She's not the kind of person we could get away with speaking to her once a week on the phone and visiting twice a year. I'm also not going to give DP an ultimatum just because she really pisses me off (DP will always defend me and prioritise me/us).

How on earth can I get her out of my headspace, even if i'm not directly communicating with her she still upsets me when she upsets DP or just generally being unreasonable. How do I manage to remain civil around her as surely that's the best approach?

It sounds like you actually handle her quite well, I guess she occupies your head even when she’s not around. How often do you see her, speak with her?

I think you need to stop looking at her as a MiL and start looking at her as you would a stranger who is being rude, interrupting your conversations, interrupting your life and trying to make her life seem more important to you.

If she was a stranger to you, would you allow her to carry on as she has been doing? Would your DP allow her to reduce them to tears at least once a month? Would you accept a stranger telling you that if you moved away X person was going to commit suicide (I think that is a terrible threat and not one that could be or should be used by anyone, no matter how distressed they think they are)?

If someone else (other family member for example) gets involved in the discussion, think of them like a concerned passer-by trying to insert themselves into the converstation, remember though they will pass by. These would be called the flying monkeys of the original stranger.

She is absolutely nothing to you if you think of her as a stranger.

I do understand that she is the mother of the person you are living with but to you, she should always be that stranger on the street. Treat her with distain. Be polite but nothing more. She doesn't warrant it.

Don't give her a second thought. Seriously. Do meditation or mindfulness if it helps get her out of your head.

Remember too, when she is old and frail, she will be a bitter old and frail woman and you don't have to have anything to do with her. If she changes her tune, that could all change but for the time being...she's burning her bridges and she probably doesn't even realise it!

Why do you need to be around her? Why can’t her son visit her without you instead? You don’t need to go with him?

Why don’t you visit twice a year and let her son visit her more often?

I can understand her being upset about him moving away after all this time but if she’s wailing about it, then that’s not on.

In my experience, people who behave like this are very repetitive so the best thing is to write down a list of all the times/ways you have difficult encounters then plan a response to each one. This might be a verbal response - e.g. I'll speak to you again when you're less emotional (and end call). Or it might be passing it over to your dp to deal with. Or just consciously reducing time spent with her or stopping certain channels of communication e.g. insisting that phone calls are done direct with your dp rather than via you.

And if you're dwelling on it then ask yourself if that is helpful (i.e. problem solving) or unhelpful - if the latter, then actively re-focus on something else.

Think of her like a toddler, someone else's toddler, that needs to be endured for short periods of time occasionally.

My situation is slightly different. BIL (Dh's BIL) is the (covert) narcissist but the headspace it was taking up for me with SIL's issues and his and all the rest of it was huge. Some of what I did will not help as I appreciate the relationship is different but...

I withdrew from all but the most essential things. I am no longer proactive in any way. I turn up for family occasions, I respond to messages that request specific information or that are invitations etc. But I don't do anything proactively.

Similarly, I only engage at the lightest of levels. I treat them as I would an acquaintance at the school gate or similar. Light, superficial conversation and engagement.

The hardest thing is accepting that I can't fix or change anything, but it is what it is. I can't help SIL as she won't help herself. And BIL's behaviour cannot be rationalised. I would think, "well, if I say x or explain y" or "but there must be a reason" and would work myself into a total state of anxiety. I had to accept that the answer to all of these questions was, "it's because he's delusional, because he's a narcissist" and that in the case of SIL, "she cannot see this because he has her completely conned"

The one above was hard. One way I got there was by making a game of it. DH and I would take some of his more outrageous statements and make fun of them. eg he once complained to SIl that he had to look after their DC while she worked (he doesn't). The sentence was, "so you're telling me I have to look after your DC so you can work?". DH and I spent weeks having conversations like, Me: I'm getting my hair done on Wednesday evening so you'll need to do supper for the DC. DH: So I'll have to cook dinner for YOUR DC because your'e getting your hair done?

I did similar with one or two trusted friends - I would share some of the more outrageous comments and we'd rank them.

BIl no longer talks to me, but when he did, I would do a version of grey rock. Polite etc. If he tried to gt me on his side with his ridiculous comments I would just repeat, "if you and SIL have an issue, you should speak with her".

Sounds like you and DP handle it pretty well between you already. Most of the battle is usually getting your DP to see the wood from the trees.

Why can't he maintain his relationship with her and you have nothing to do with her?

He can see what she's like - so why are you expected to be part of that? If his male best friend was so vile to you, you wouldn't be involved with it. And no one would you expect you to.

I fucking wish I drew that line years ago and said to DH - she's your problem. Not mine. Would have saved me years of heartache.

It's not unreasonable for you now to go completely NC and allow him to pick up the pieces with her when he has to. He also has the option to bin her off.

Do you have kids together yet? If not, draw that boundary line NOW before you do.

I used to fall asleep at work and at school. I found out I'm seriously anaemic and since taking a decent dose of iron I no longer fall asleep in the day. Could that be it?

Wrong thread sorry!

Tell her nothing in advance - holiday plans, days out, moving house/jobs, having children. She can't interfere if she doesn't know.

Lock down all your social media then block her, tell her you've come off it to manage your time better.

Only superficial, light, meaningless interactions.
Always talk in the plural - we not I - to reflect you are a team.
Always tell the other about what she's said/done so she can't manipulate interactions when talking to the other.

step back as far as you can as a couple

I would be tempted to use her tactic back at her - do you realise when you do/say X it makes us feel Y. But I've too much experience with shit like this to let her win.

Get a sim card. Give her the 'new number'. Block her on both your actual phones. Check in once a week on the new number.

Why are you even having anything to do with her? She's not your mother, just go NC. If she asks your DH why, he can tell her (he can obviously handle her so shouldn't have issue with this).

I say this all as someone who suffered for many years with a controlling narcissistic MIL. I eventually went NC and now she's dead.

DH kept in contact with her but did what your DH does - grey rock, shared very little info, etc.

Feel sorry for her. Happy people don’t act the way she does. Holding on to anger will eat away at you. Limit your interaction with her and be a positive force of energy every time you do see her. Fake it till you make it, as it was! If you find yourself going back over your conversations afterwards you need to do something to distract your mind. Go running. Do some aggressive cleaning. Whatever works for you.

I rather like your own suggestion.

Essentially you do have a DP problem as he will not go NC with her hence her still being in your lives and getting up to all her narcy tricks.

Sounds like the grey rock method isn’t going to work here.

I did this with my DHs awful family - it really helps. I check the other sim quite rarely these days. When I reply to their messages I reply in a generic light way.

The thing that’s really worked for me with my MIL (and other people like her!) is to go inwards into my feelings and learning to tolerate my feelings.

It’s figuring out what feelings inside you are being triggered when you have interactions with her, and working out what your fears are - what do you fear that stops you from talking to her from your heart and setting boundaries for yourself? And then developing resiliency and tolerance for feeling those feelings by practising letting yourself feel them.

This can be tricky to unpick and to really get to the root of it it might help to get a few counselling sessions as a counsellor can help you notice what you’re feeling and practice feeling in a safe space.

For example, if your MIL does/says something annoying, what stops you from saying ‘I’m not okay with that’ or ‘please don’t…’ or ‘that doesn’t work for me, this is what would work…’?

is it a fear that she won’t like you anymore? Where does that need to be liked come from? Were your parents okay with you expressing a full range of feelings? What would happen if you expressed disagreement or anger or anxiety when you were little? Is there some guilt about doing what you need to do when it differs from what your MIL wants?

Is it anger? What do you feel injustice about? Does that point to a past experience where you didn’t get what you need from someone? Does it point to a need you have in the present? What can you do to meet that need in yourself? (Look up inner child and re-parenting)

Then sitting with those feelings - the anxiety, guilt, anger, whatever it is - and let yourself feel them. Notice where you feel them in your body. Reassure yourself that though the feelings are uncomfortable they will pass. Clearing that energy/tension in your body leaves you more free to act and speak in a way that’s right for you. The more you do that process, the more you confident you get in forging feelings and behaviours that are more true to how you really feel.

This goes for any annoying person! If we feel some heat about them, that’s an indicator that there’s some unfinished business within us, and when you’ve dealt with that within you, you’ll be left with less heat. They’ll still be annoying, but you won’t feel so bothered by them.

Look up Byron Katie’s The Work if you want more examples of how to do this kind of inner work.

You’re not responsible for making other people happy btw, however much they guilt trip and blackmail you. Anyone who commits suicide is responsible for their own actions (and I say that having done an enormous amount of thinking about that after my own H’s suicide.) The more you do this inner work, the more you’ll detach from your MIL and encourage her to sort out her own problems without even having to tell her to do that. And if she doesn’t do that, it’s her lookout. Her own happiness is in her hands regardless of how much you run around her.

Sorry this is long! Hope there’s something helpful in there though.

I’m still really struggling with MIL.

She’s now realised that I’m not a huge fan of her as I keep putting off any offers of us spending one-on-one time with her. She kicked off with DP at the weekend demanding to know why I don’t want to be close with her. DP listed a couple of things that she’s done to massively overstep boundaries (she had a tantrum as I was only inviting friends along to my hen do/I only wanted to go wedding dress shopping with the females in my immediate family/when I asked her to stop talking about my finances as it makes me uncomfortable etc).

I received a real passive aggressive-empty ‘apology’ and now she wants me to forgive and forget as I’m upsetting her.

DP has really spelled it out to her how she’s unreasonable and he supports me. Quote on quote ‘we don’t do this boundary nonsense in this family’ and yet she’s making out I’m being the awkward one.

DP won’t go no contact with his family (his dad + siblings will follow MIL lead if we’re NC).

Do I just send an equally empty apology/message to move on for DP sake? Or do I just go NC and make DP life as awkward as possible?

Google 'grey rock' technique. I do this with my mother now which has helped.

His parents have also threatened to not come to our wedding if the ‘rift’ between me and MIL isn’t resolved.

Don't apologise to her-you aren't the one being painful. Can your dp just stop answering all of her calls? Answer once a week, nothing more? Re her saying we don't do boundaries-'yes, we do, you just trample all over them and I have a life. Speak to you next week', phone down. Equally, you're super busy the next few weeks, see you next month-go to theirs so you can escape when you want.

She wants you to forgive and forget as you are upsetting her?!

I would smile sweetly and say that at her age most people have discovered that actions have consequences…. That your distancing yourself is a direct response to her behaviour and no you won’t forgive and certainly not forget.

However. Your husband sounds like a diamond. So for his sake I would agree to visit, perhaps once a month… providing she behaves herself. Although I would be polite but keep my distance. And any hint of her previous nonsense you just withdraw again.

I feel really sorry for your DH. It’s a real shame he won’t go NC but I do understand his reason.

And if she comments that they don’t do any of this boundary nonsense, I would be tempted to reply …. That is blatantly obvious.

Tell her you are both thinking about emigrating to Australia, that should shut her up.

Oh and absolutely no apology!

So you say 'OK thanks for letting us know'.