Teenager - I need some help please.

[NotSureICanParentAnymore]

I'm struggling to get on with my eldest child to the point that I don't really like her and what she stands for any more. She's 17.

It's very difficult because she's a good lass. She's got good results and generally behaves herself. She is polite and amiable to others.

The problem comes with me and her siblings. At home she is sullen, negative, critical and argumentative. She constantly puts me and them down. Her tone is negative and critical and she's constantly causing arguments, though she can NEVER see her role in any of it and always feels picked on and slighted.

She is so entitled. She's recently got into labels and is buying lots of second hand designer stuff online. Fine. But then she expects us to pay for expensive trips abroad with school. Expects it like it's her right to go, and our duty to pay. She has a job and likes to treat herself but there's never any thought about others/helping around the house (unless it's her day to do a job and even then she needs asking multiple times). Driving lessons- on her birthday- no thanks for the investment or organising it, no acknowledgement of the support or gift- just criticism about what I do wrong. Nevermind none of her peers have had a lesson yet as their parents didn't organise it.

Her view is that money is the biggest driver. She asks why I have 'wasted myself on low paid (highly qualified) public service jobs??'

Yuk, yuk, yuk I hate all of this. I can't imagine her friends are impressed by it, either. They don't seem the type.

I'm struggling to put in boundaries. I've no idea where to start to unpick this -monster- mess.

We had very high expectations when they were all small and drummed into them the value of kindness, honesty and compassion. I feel like someone has stolen my child and replaced her with a stranger. One that, if it were a peer, I would avoid as we'd have so little in common and who in fact I would find difficult to tolerate.

I just don't know where to start. The constant negativity and walking on eggshells is so exhausting. I'm thinking it'd be easier to live separately from her.

Am I asking too much for a little gratitude or kindness? A little respect or giving back. Maybe I am. Maybe it is just what's expected

Please help. I can't see the wood for the trees.

How do you instill/enforce boundaries when the other person does not recognise their part in the situation/conflict?

I've currently got 3 teens. I try to not take sides or aportion blame as much as possible. So my role in sibling conflict is to de-esculate. I aim to calm everyone down, which means actively not allowing any blame, just solving the problem.

I disagree with those that say this is normal teenage behaviour- not in my experience or those of my peers.

One thing i did pick up on was you saying that you had very high expectations of your DC in terms of values.... this can often be difficult for children to cope with , especially during adolescent years when hormones and emotions are all over the place .

I have learnt to mostly discuss issues only when serious, otherwise let it be. Another parent of teens once told me that the best advice they could help with the teen issues was to “ let things go over your head” as much as possible. It’s hard to watch your teens make glaring mistakes and/or take on different roles and ways of getting through life than you can relate to, yet this is what they need to do at this point in their lives.

Although you’ve had enough of DD’s selfishness and rudeness , ( totally been there, it’s absolutely shit) , the fact that you have reasonable boundaries and are doing whatever you can to provide a loving, stable and secure home means the world to your Dd. ( although she won’t be telling you this ;) ) Teens that don’t have a stable home and someone batting for them, or have a breakdown in their home situation will often continue to seriously struggle with life through adulthood . Also, don’t underestimate how important the wonderfully supportive and positive foundation years are that you have laid before.
I’m guessing that if your DD previously had a great connection with family , she will likely return to this, somewhere between 18-25, but either way, some wonderful kind advice here to get you through the bumpy years.

This is possibly a ridiculous suggestion and a completely different situation but....

My DS is asd and can be extremely oppositional to the point of seeming nasty.

One day he was being mega oppositional, arguing for hours about something ridiculous and obviously just trying to be difficult and I was trying to be reasonable and logical and it all got too much for me and I burst into tears and couldn't stop, literally howling. Not my finest moment.

He was so shocked, I don't think he had ever thought I had feelings or it affected me. Probably an asd thing but he really scaled it back after that.

So I'm possibly suggesting you burst into tears. Or at least that you find a way to be sure she really understands how much her behaviour is hurting you and the family. It sounds like you brought her up well and you're sure there's a caring person in there so if you can just get past the self centered-ness.

Or, family counselling? If she has reasonable respect for other adults that could work.

I've been thinking about this NotSureICanParentAnymore and think there's actually a lot to keep separate/ unpick in your opening post; as you say yourself you can't see the wood for the trees.

It's developmentally appropriate that she wants to be a clearly separate and distinct, different adult from you. You don't like the person she is becoming/ seems to be because she's materialistic (but polite, hard working and respectful outside the home). Aside from her behaviour at home it's important to remember that other parents would be delighted with her pragmatic approach and the signs of hardworking, career oriented "successful" independent woman.

That's not my idea of "success" either but I do think it's so important we accept that our teens are allowed to have different world views and different values and big opinions (as long as these are legal and not damaging in an immediate rather than theoretical/ philosophical context or to our egos!).

Although I have a 17 year old myself I am reminded of my own mother (and in the background father, though he was less vocal and demonstratively emotional so I was somewhat oblivious to his role at the time) who used to cry and try to emotionally blackmail me into church (and all the associated social and cultural events which go with being heavily involved in a religious group) attendance and belief in her religious ideas . She's never really forgiven me for not returning to her church, contrite after a brief rebellion, which is what she often informed me I would do. She never accepted or respected that I had actually given the matter thought and come to my own conclusions about religion and the religious community. In the same way she never accepted that I had different political opinions and different priorities and a very different career nor later that I brought my children up quite differently, by conscious choice not by accident, to the way I was brought up.

I know that you're not trying to manipulate your daughter into church involvement and religious beliefs with tears btw! I'm just saying it's really important that you accept and express pride in your daughter for who she is (including her priorities which are different from yours, as long as they're not illegal or evil, which being materialistic and driven by a wish to be a high earner isn't, however distasteful it might be).

Not liking her because she isn't like you (even though I'm sure you try not to let it show) will show and be part of the reason she's rejecting yu more nastily than her father. I think a mental reset is important as a parent to actually try to feel proud of the young woman she is and the excellent grounding and stable base you've given her to allow her to develop into her own person and be anything she wants to be.

Separate from that is the rudeness/ nasty comments to you and her siblings. Absolutely don't tolerate that obviously. A sharp word every time should be enough, but if not have a conversation with her father next to you and pre-briefed solely about this. Respectful behaviour towards members of the household. Present a united front and remind her of behavioural expectations but don't muddy the waters talking about values or gratitude - stick to the concrete, measurable behaviour. If she's not receptive get transactional and remind her of the extras that you provide (phone contract, optional "fun" not subject related school trips, extra money for driving lessons but not the birthday present ones; you can't take a birthday present back and be considered fair - or whatever and point out that they're conditional based on mutually respect, and if her behaviour at home is rude they'll be withdrawn). An intelligent but materialistic teen should respond to that!

I think it's really important to respond only to concrete behaviour not different values, is what I'm saying! It's effectively "pick your battles" as with toddlers! Also as others say don't ever apportion blame in sibling disputes (unless every moment of the dispute and background happened in front of you! Sometimes better not even then!). It's really important to remain impartial and not give the impression you're siding with ine child.

If she believes that you don't like her she'll never listen to you or behave pleasantly towards you out of unconscious emotional self defense.

I remember being a teenage girl vividly. Hormones completely changed my personality between ages 15-17. They made me anxious and defensive and pretty depressed in all honesty.

I was one of four and my parents sort of ignored me as the difficult one because I was highly strung, emotional, argumentative and negative.

no one really tried to get through to me and I made some bad choices further isolating myself.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is, I knew I wasn’t feeling myself but I was so ravaged by hormones that I couldn’t help it and it sort of became a self fulfilling cycle.

Id encourage you to keep your expectations and boundaries but also to really seek opportunities for connection with your daughter. Perhaps go vintage label shopping together? Or something else that might interest her.

I came full circle by the time I was 18 (I didn’t move out to uni stayed at home to save money) and lived at home til I was 25.

My parents still talk now 20 years later about how awful I was, and I try my best to explain to them that through my adult lens now I would describe my feelings at that time as anxiety and depression that manifested as teenage angst.

Such a great bunch of insight and advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to think about this and write such a clear response. I've cried a little bit reading it (in a good way) as you've unpicked so much confusion (differentiating between behaviour and values, for example). It's all stuff I know but when it's happening to your family, in such an emotionally charged way, it's impossible to see objectively. Thank you.

It's such a fine balance isn't it? A parental tightrope! I'm glad you still have a good relationship now. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Thank you everyone for your time and advice. Lots of food for thought. It seems it's very much a case of 'pick your battles' which I'm not very good at. I hate the rudeness and see it as a reflection on us. It's not.

I am very guilty of 'losing it' every few months when I just can't take it any more. I do worry about the effects of my nasty (lost control) words. Plus it never (or if it does, it's only for a few days) makes a difference. But then again, I'm also worried though about the impact of the constant negativity and putdowns from her towards her siblings.

You're also right in that I'm very proud and thankful of the adult she is becoming and the way she conducts herself outside of our family. It's a classic... she does it to those of us who love her most.

I will read all your advice again and try and remember it when I need it most.

Much appreciated.