London Begging - it’s changed

[Stupidbonfire]

So I’m the first person to admit I’m a complete country bumpkin so please forgive my naivety here.

ive just returned from a wonderful weekend in London. Haven’t been for about 5 years but used to visit regularly and my sister lived there for 10 years. So it’s not like we’re strangers to it. But where there used to be plentiful big issue sellers outside the tube stations and the usual homeless people with clear alcohol or substance misuse issues begging. They seem to have disappeared. We didn’t see one big issue seller. And whilst there were still the occasional doorway sleeper in a winter coat with a sleeping bag with a sign etc, there was also a new kind of beggars I have never seen in the uk before.
clearly very vulnerable individuals just plonked in the middle of the pavement on regent street. Dressed utterly in rags. And not worn out modern clothing. Complete rags. Like flour sacks. It’s was almost Dickensian. He was shaking and loudly begging for help and money. Similar Romanian looking women, really loudly begging for help. Like I’m extreme distress. Rather than just huddled in a doorway. And obviously everyone walks on by. I am assuming that these people are trafficked and there are minders watching them. The man on regent street was clearly severely disability and would have in no way managed to get himself there.
what can we do to help. These don’t look like clientele for shelter or big issue, which is what I would normally donate to or purchase to support. What if anything is being done?
It reminds me of the gangs in India sending the poor street children out.

Op you are right! I've not noticed many recently at all!

I remember being absolutely shocked at the level of begging and harrasment in Paris.
Also outside Disney paris a man went everyday wheeling himself with his one leg, , every day.
One day DD said with absolute shock " mummy,there is a foot poking out where he has no leg" and she was right. It felt so sinister!

Interesting to read these accounts, I saw all this gang-controlled begging with fake disabilities / vulnerable babies / toddlers / 'selling' tissues on the tube in Barcelona 20 years ago, having never seen it before. It's very depressing.

I have seen dogs being used for begging as well, a huge St Bernard that looked like it had been drugged, people obvious stop to pet the dog and then the man asks for money. I did see somewhere that the dog was being looked for as it was believed to be a stolen pet (can't remember where I saw that) but I felt so sorry for it as ut looked utterly miserable.

There was a chap (might still be there) on the pedestrian bit of Hungerford Bridge, by Waterloo Station and he used a child's crutch which meant he was bent right over, as he staggered about with his hand out. I don't think it fooled many people.

Never give money to beggars. It's scam all over Europe as pps said. It's organised. I love people watching while having coffee in a summer so pick seats on a street. I've seen them swap places, go around the corner, come back with exchanged "clothes" mixed and match. Numerous times in numerous different places.

Give to local charities helping. Lots of small ones who do great work.

Disgusting attitude you have there OP. The 'usual' substance abusing homeless people? Seriously, educate yourself. Vile

Disgusting attitude you have there OP. The 'usual' substance abusing homeless people? Seriously, educate yourself. Vile

Well it was a sensible, informative thread until this 🙄

You see them all the time, particularly on busy ring roads or on tubes like the District Line where there are no separate carriages. Sometimes you'll see them being picked up/dropped off in the morning or evening. Quite recently they seem to have started doing 24/7 shifts on some roads so even in the middle of the night there'll be someone at the traffic lights. Some of them are quite intimidating and stand at the car window for ages, others just wander up and down between cars and don't actively beg as such.

I still give to Shelter, even though I know this isn't the people it's helping. At least it helps fight homelessness in general. I have also reported people on the Modern Slavery/Trafficking website, when I've seen enough evidence: www.modernslaveryhelpline.org/report

I see nothing informative here at all. Just the usual rubbish 'dont give money to homeless people', 'crackheads' and so on.

You know nothing about the experiences of people who sleep rough and believe it or not it's not just a case of those with heroin addictions are the only ones who end up homeless. The contempt towards fellow human beings is horrible, speaking about them as if they are less than.

Sadly I think the people you describe are just better at it. Highly skilled professional beggars, exploited by organised gangs.

I knew the 1980s Marble Arch man personally. He was not trafficked nor was he involved in crime. I can't say any more as it might be outing but he had people who loved him and he had some security.

Homelessness in London (and other cities) has become so much worse over the last decade or so. Far more people sleeping rough and far more organised begging gangs (in response to PP, the gangmasters may be rich but the women doing the begging certainly aren't and are being appallingly exploited).

When I moved to London 20 years ago, homeless charities used to say that you shouldn't give to rough sleepers because you're just enabling a harmful lifestyle- there are enough beds available for everyone so sleeping rough is a "choice" (albeit a "choice" directed by addiction and mental illness)- better to support the charities that are working to get people off the streets and provide appropriate care. They no longer say this, because the number of homeless people now massively swamps the facilities available. I can't see any of this changing until we get this rotten government out.

Homelessness overall is the worst it's ever been. I feel awful saying it, but yes I am a bit suspicious of the sackcloth Dickensian-style begging that feels like it's a contrivance that's more likely to be connected to organised crime. At the end of the day you don't necessarily know which is which; but the cardboard signs that all the say the same thing tend to ring alarm bells for me.

You know nothing about the experiences of people who sleep rough

Rubbish. I used to work in admin support for a Older People community mental health team, with multiple clients who were facing or experiencing homelessness combined with serious MH issues.

I live further out, reported come to police as appearing to be trafficking victims; those ones disappeared for fresh. I reported them too the same way, then they disappeared. Reported a third time, nobody sits there now. Even though it seems pointless, try to report any obviously trafficked people whenever you can, it might eventually help.

Well that's me told. You organised meetings and typed up documents for a community mental health team. I apologise, I wasn't aware of your clear and advanced expertise on the causes and impact of homelessness 😂

There is a difference between rough sleeping homeless and beggars.
Rough sleeping homeless usually don't go around beghing aggressively and preformatively. Swapping dogs etc.
Beggars and addicts do. The latter is often seen going back to hostel.
The rough sleeping homeless usually just try to keep away to themselves to keep safe. I donate to charity tending to these at night.

Well that's me told. You organised meetings and typed up documents for a community mental health team. I apologise, I wasn't aware of your clear and advanced expertise on the causes and impact of homelessness 😂

I did yes. You don't think typing up lengthy, intricate medical and social histories of older individual clients and maintaining their records, being the first in line to deal with distressed clients and negotiating sometimes for hours with them, trying to persuade them on the phone and in person, to come in and access essential support services worthwhile or of value? Oh well.

I always laugh at posters who like you who storm onto threads to castigate and discipline others for stepping out of your personally determined line and then end up posting equally, often much worse sneers and verbal attacks themselves, while smugly believing they occupy the moral high ground

It is NOT contempt to discuss and acknowledge that homelessness in large cities often has a much darker underbelly driving it. No one has been "contemptuous" or "vile". It's a worthwhile conversation. It's your ridiculous knee jerk criticism and name calling that has made this thread unpleasant.

You can tell the difference though. Genuine hopeless people are in sleeping bags mostly minding their own business. Many will have substance abuse issues so you still risk funding organised crime by giving them money, don't give them money. Give these people food if you want to help, although they might not appreciate it, many will.

People walking the streets begging for money are almost certainly drug addicts. Give them money and you're funding organised crime.

*genuine homeless

Not London but I witnessed similar in a town near where I live recently. A barefoot man in torn clothes rocking back and forth wailing.
I was parked up waiting for my husband to come out of an appointment so had a direct view.

After a while, a well dressed woman came along (nice black trousers, t-shirt, and a cardigan), and swapped places with the man. He took off the outfit he was wearing (a sort of sack) and she put it on over her clothes and took off her shoes so she was barefoot. Under the sack, he had perfectly normal clothes- jeans and a hoodie, and he took a pair of trainers out from under the blanket he’d been sitting on.

Every time someone gave them money, they took it out of the cup so it appeared empty.

They easily took in €20+ in the 15 mins I was watching them. Some coins but plenty of €5 notes.

I'm regularly in London and yes the begging has changed. You do still have BI sellers, there is one outside Waterloo station and also close to the BBC building.
The organised stuff is scary and it must also be scary with some of the people who are forced in to it.
Saw an old Eastern European lady near Oxford street just huddled in a corner, crying and praying in to her hands. Felt desperately sorry for her, as she was obviously dumped there.
Don't know the answers. It seems out of control.

I’m in outer SW London - in the main shopping area we used to have a lot of what I took to be Eastern European beggars, all with exactly the same placards and all saying exactly the same thing. Since they were presumably run by gangmasters, I never gave them anything - I did feel sorry for them though - who on earth would want to be reduced to doing that?

I don’t see them any more - I dare say it’s because since the pandemic, far fewer people carry cash - I hardly ever do - not coins anyway.

There are now one or two who look more home-grown, so to speak, but I don’t give to them either - I do support homeless charities though.

The thing that always gets me about this though is that I've heard the trafficked women are often forced into brothels at night. I don't know if that's because they haven't earned enough begging in the day, or just a "bonus" for the gang master.

I buy coffee for beggars, or a pre packed sandwich. Never money.