to worry that eccentricity is becoming unacceptable?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just watched the JS documentary on Netflix. One of the things that struck me as sad (apart from the fact that the victims suffered in silence, obviously) was that people liked him because he was eccentric. Now the view seems to be that everyone was naive to think that he was a harmless eccentric. His oddity should have alerted us to the fact that there was something wrong. But isn't this only with hindsight? Can't someone be odd and not a peodophile?

His oddness had obvious abusive overtones and undertones. He presented to professional environments in fishnet vests and passed sexual remarks about women in their presence. His oddness was obviously perverted, but at the time misogyny was acceptable, and those who did try to question his behavior was silenced. He was just eccentric; he was openly abusive. He caressed young girls on camera, with footage of his victims trying to get away from him. He was predatory, on camera, there is plenty of evidence of that.

There’s odd and there’s saville level of odd though.

The problem with eccentrics these days isn’t saville, they’re viewed as dim and annoying. I know a few eccentrics and every one of them believes batshit stuff like the earth is flat or aliens are following and watching them like some other worldy safari trip. Elvis isn’t really dead he just wanted to leave the US and his manager wouldn’t let him. I forgot about that one. That was my great uncle and he was nuttier than a snickers.

Jimmy Saville wasn't eccentric. He was a pedophile who used a fake harmless/cheeky eccentricity to sexually abuse children. Repeatedly and publicly. It was his cover and his ability to get away with his crimes. It's really not comparable.

You insult eccentrics by using JS in the same sentence.

I have 'shape' thoughts going on all of the time.. thoughts on colour and dress design as examples. I like things others do not seem to. I am my own person I suppose, not so much a maverick but certainly nobody's sheep.
I have a different 'take' on situations. I have found myself being 'flamed' on MN for my opinions, but they are my opinions and as valid as anyone else's.
My partner says I am an eccentric and that is part of what makes me special to him. My children are a little more critical than this ! One thing I am not is boring. I do not think I am eccentric because it is one of those words than can be manipulated into making you think a person is not right in the head.
You will find the eccentrics in life are not self proclaimed is what I think

I dunno. There is eccentric and there is plain creepy. He was a creepy man and definitely had sexual overtones

My neighbour I'd say was a true eccentric, harmless, loved gardening, "outsider" artist type, painting on walls and cereal boxes and things, sometimes would just burst into song (lovely singing voice)! Never ever weird or inappropriate.
I love weird or eccentric people. I am from a ND family and lots of ND friends so I am tolerant and actively encourage "oddness" 😁

I don't think it's getting less acceptable or that active would conclude any eccentricity is a cover got dubiousness. Misogyny is however less acceptable than 40 years ago and I suspect his sexual creepiness at the time was just laughed off as part of his 'eccentricity', just as in the case of some other men it was shrugged about as 'just what men are like'.

I really don’t think it’s that broad.

*any eccentricity is a cover for dubiousness

The man was a predator there was nothing eccentric in his demeanour in the least.

Everybody loves an eccentric, but nobody wants to live next door to one.

That's sick that they've said that. Stopped us spotting him? People were making hints and saying things in desperation all over the BBC, such as John Lydon for one. He groped a woman on TV in TOTP.

What stopped him being outed was a cover up by the BBC and likely many in power including all the celebrities he hob knobbed with as if they didn't know what he was up to.

Eccentric is a word we tend to use when we “not judge” judge, i.e. we acknowledge that someone’s appearance, manner or activities are unusual, without intending to say outright that we find it unsettling, or know that something bad is being masked by the behaviour/manner/appearance…

If you call someone (or their behaviour) eccentric, when you have deeply-felt suspicions that something about them is not acceptable, then you are allowing politeness and/or fear (of being found wrong/slander Etc.) to mask your true gut feeling.

I worked with a relative of JS in the 1980’s: after hearing her side of knowing him well, I stopped calling him “eccentric” when he came up in conversation, and substituted “a bit dodgy” instead, as having no experience of meeting him, and having more trust in my colleague’s point of view, yet no direct accusation for him from myself, I felt that was as far as I could go. Language can be very nuanced…

I think you r confusing eccentric with sexually inappropriate and creepy.

There are plenty of eccentric people I know. If any of them starting making weird creepy remarks about sex with little girls then yes, of course I'd be concerned. I'd be equally concerned if someone not eccentric made such comments! It is not the eccentric part that rings alarm bells.

Being eccentric has nothing to do with being a creepy paedophile sex pest. If saville just had crazy hair, a cheeky persona and smoked a cigar no-one would care. It's the creepy sex comments, the hanging around hospitals and vulnerable people at odd times, the hanging out with unaccompanied teenage girls all the time, and the admitting that he was violent and a sex pest without being challenged, that people are saying should not have gone ignored.

Eccentric = fine and always should b fine

Creepy sex pest with interest in underage girls and violence = not fine, now, then or ever

When I think eccentric I think Chris Eubank. When I think Savile I think paedophile.

My DH is an eccentric. He wears suspenders, round sunglasses and a flatcap everywhere, uses a lot of steampunk aesthetic, and speaks with obscure colloquialisms. Very interested in old gadgets and only really socialises while playing board games. People tend to either really like him, or really dislike him; no middle ground.

He is not a paedophile and doesn't give off those vibes though. Most eccentrics don't.

This.

about 10 years, my boss made a similar comment. She felt that Christopher Jeffries had been picked on by the press because of perceived eccentricity.

I think there's been a cycle - a phase where it was socially unacceptable and I think it's now okay again?

Exactly, OP. You seem to have missed that his eccentricity was sexually deviant.

Did it genuinely not occur to you?

I think there's plenty of space still for genuine one-offs and eccentrics. Like Miriam Margolyes, Su Pollard or Chris Packham.

But there's some like John McCririck whose eccentricity was really just bigotry and sexism and other like Biggins who are just arses

Even at the time lots of people were aware of how creepy he was.

I remember watching a TV programme from years ago where the Nolan sisters were talking about being on Top of the Pops when they were young and Jimmy interviewing the youngest sister, who was still very much a kid, and the other sisters said they were glaring at him like hawks to make sure he didn't do anything to their little sister. Lots of people knew he was a wrong'un, but lacked either the power, courage or will to do anything, or else were middle aged men who didn't see the problem.

There are plenty of eccentric people around. I know several, they are overall kind people who have niche interests and don’t mind standing out a bit as odd. They have a healthy attitude of not worrying too much about what other people think.

None of them are creepy or predatory, that’s something else entirely.

Jimmy Savile wasn’t at all truly eccentric, in my view. He affected his contrived and fake eccentric persona to hide his perversions in plain sight, as he admitted.

Eccentric literally means off centre and one dictionary definition has it as:

Departing from a recognized, conventional, or established norm or pattern. synonym: strange.
Deviating from a circular form or path, as in an elliptical orbit.
Not having the same centre

I think that genuinely eccentric people don't think of themselves as eccentric at all, unlike the Colin Hunts of this world, the “I'm mad, me” types.
Media people often affect quirks to make themselves more prominent, I would't necessarily think of Sue Pollard, Miriam Margolyes and the rest as eccentric. Chris Eubank, yes.
Somewhere there's a line between eccentricity and mental health issues. You're more to be perceived as eccentric if you're well off, too.

I think my problem with the documentary was that it didn't make a clear distinction between 'odd' as in spontaneous and zany dancing on top of the pops, or hogging all the chips 'odd', and sexually inappropriate 'odd', which is quite a different thing. Glad to see people seem to agree with me that eccentricity isn't in itself a bad thing.

On How did he get away with groping women and making jokes about sexual abuse on television? I thought the documentary answered that itself. He didn't 'get away' with it - he was on camera in the first place because of it. The public absolutely lapped up cheeky flirt act. In the 60s footage respectable primary school teachers and chip shop owners were practically queuing up to be snogged by him on TV. As late as 2000 the audience was in stitches at his joke about getting a job in a girls' school.

Princess Ann does a lot of work for charity, and she's never been picked for prime-time family TV on the BBC. People loved it because they thought it was all an act - innocent Saturday-night entertainment. That's why they're so outraged now. It's a bit like laughing your head off at John Cleese Hitler impression only to discover when he's dead that he really was a closet Nazi. Comedy depends on audience trust, and that trust has been breached.

Tbh I haven't thought about him much since I stopped watching Jim'll Fix It aged 11. I absolutely loved the concept of making dreams come true and really wanted to be on the programme. I didn't really see the attraction of Jim himself, though. I didn't find the whole aging hippie look attractive at all. I think I even asked my parents once 'Why is he dressed like that?' and they tried to explain that this was considered 'cool' in the 60s. I was like, 'but this isn't the 60s and he's an old man doing a children's programme!' I wouldn't say, though, 'looking back I KNEW he was a peodophile'. I just thought he had really bad dress sense!

I think all this 'We should have known from the way he behaved on TV' stuff is a distraction from the real question. Why did the police not put together all the reports they had sooner? Why did the BBC not listen to the women who said they felt uncomfortable? How people behave on TV isn't a useful guide at all.

Absolutely spot on