I posted this on relationships, but think it'd be better here as I may be being unreasonable- mum and sister again. V fed up.

[Mumblesmummy]

Hi everyone.

I whinged a whinged when my sister totally ignored me when i got pregnant. She and her DH didn't speak to me for 3 months and I talked about it a lot on here and got very good advice. Then she got pregnant with twins so she saw fit to speak to me again.

Anyway, things had improved loads and we'd been getting on well. Until today.

We're both teachers- she's full time and I'm part time because I'm still training. I asked mum a few months ago what was happening about childcare, as I knew my sister had been whinging that mum would be looking after my baby.

That's not the case because DPs family are all desperate to play a part too, and I'm only working part time anyway as I want to spend as much time as poss with babba. However, i do want my baby to be able to spend a morning or two a week with my mum as she's an AMAZING mum and I want him to have one to one time with his nana.

So today i find out she wants my mum to look after her twins the full five days a week that her and her DP work, when they are born, a couple of months after my baby is due.

This means that if my baby was to go and see his nana while I'm working, there will always be two slightly younger babies there being looked after. Which i feel is too many for her to look after anyway as it's not fair, she's already raised her own 3 children.

This means that not only will I not be able to have my mum (the person i am most comfortable with looking after him) looking after my baby, but I will have to send him to DPs mum, auntie (who's like DPs 2nd mum), sister, or maybe a baby group at the college (only if it's good- if not, he can just got to DPs family for the 12 hours a week I'll be working).

I just think it is sooooooooooooo selfish. She acts as though my baby's totally unimportant or doesn't exist anyway, when he is the single most important thing in the world to me and DP. My mum is really excited about my baby coming and she wants to spend time with him- but I just cannot see how it will work.

At the weekends, my dad and brother are at home so it's not the same. Plus my DPs off some of the weekend so we'll be visiting people, doing family things etc etc.

I'm just really put out. And I find her to be so selfish.

But what can i do??

God I feel sorry for your mother, your sister needs to be told were to get off.

But more practically what age is your mother? Has she any health problems? If she has this could potentially be a good reason for her to tell your sister she can't look after twins five days a week. My mum can't look after DD on her own as she has arthritis and can't lift her. Honestly unless she is fit as a fiddle it is too much to expect of your mother.

Hi everyone, I was on a real rant last night because I'd only just found out the situation and got all upset and angry. I've had time to sleep now and calmed down, and had a little think at waking intervals in the night and learnt to accept it.

I've decided that when 6-6s are on, or toddler group, mum could take the twins and I could take my baby so they can play together and mum's not stuck with 3 kids ruling her house. I think that's Thursday mornings each week.

I am going to tell my mum and my sister that I think my mum being expected to look after twins 5 days a week on her own with no pay is unreasonable and I don't think she should be used for full time child care. Then I've put my point forward and I can leave it at that.

Everyone wants to look after my baby, loads of my family, even more of DPs family, and we won't be stuck, so on that front I'm very fortunate. However, my mum desperately wants to look after him too. Which is where some of the problem lies, as if she wasn't fussed, I'd just take him to the baby nursery at the college I teach at, which I've just found out has had a fantastic ofstead report, or he could go to DPs family or whatever, it's only 12 hours and he'll be well looked after. However, mum cried when I said that as we're very very close and she wanted to have time with my baby. She felt betrayed. So I'm at a loss.

I only want mum to have a morning with him, as he's my baby not hers and she shouldn't HAVE to spend time with him, but I can't see it happening, so I'll just pop him over of a weekend when my sister's kids arn't there, and he can see mum, dad and my brother all at once. However, mum got all upset about this too. I think she needs to make a decision, but it's important to me that she's not looking after either of our kids for a total of 5 days a week so even if she has a morning off, I don't want to fill it with her looking after my son.

I will take him round when my sisters kids are there as he's soooooooooooo lucky to have cousins his age, I did, and I absolutely loved it. However, I won't be leaving mum to look after 3 kids as it's not feasable and he might aswell be at nursery as do that.

Also, before my sister stated she wanted mum looking after the twins full time, mum had asked me if I'd like to go to church with her, my nana and my brother on Sunday mornings, and take my baby. I haven't been to church since they used to take me, but I said yes, I'd like to, and I think it's important for the baby to go. So we were all settled, and mum was really happy when i said yes.

She doesn't talk about the twins too much as she doesn't have a very good relationship with my sister's DH as he is a control freak, and she's always worrying about my sister (depite her being 31). So they're not as close anymore as he's stuck a wedge between them as he's highly unreasonable, despite him living with us for 8 years when I was growing up, and sponging off my mum and dad all the while. They also live about 5 miles away, where as I live sort of a mile or so. I'm only 22 (my mum's 50 by the way) and so mum still sees me as her baby girl and she always calls my baby 'her little baby' and buys him hundreds of things secretly. Which is so sweet.

So anyway, out of the blue, my sister's DH said 'so on a Sunday you can come up to ours, pick the twins up and take them to church, maybe have them for a bit and then bring them back afterwards'. So that's Sunday taken up aswell now. Mum said 'No, if you want to take them to church, you're welcome to come WITH us, or atleast drop them at mine yourself and pick them up afterwards'. However, she always puts her foot down and gives in straight away, so she will end up picking them up for an easy life, inevitably.

Mum needs to talk to dad about the childcare yet, and I think he'll say no as it will be too much for my mum, and also because they will expect my mum to pay for the baby's food, milk, nappies, everything that the babies use when at my mums. They even get mum to cook their tea and take it to them sometimes (5 miles away).

Sooo...... any one got any more thoughts? Am i doing the right thing? Should I approach it differently? I'm happy to listen to ANY advice anyone can give.

Is your sister older or younger than you?. This goes far deeper than just childcare issues.

Methinks that the roots of all this between the two of you goes back far earlier to how you were both treated as siblings by your parents. Your sister may actually feel that she got the raw deal in that family unit. I'm not excusing her behaviours at all but that may be worth thinking about. I think this sister is very envious/jealous of you but with jealousy goes low self esteem. Her controlling husband undoubtedly makes her feel emotionally worse and will continue to do so until she herself sees him for what he really is.

How much of this do you think is actually coming from her controlling husband?. It sounds to me like she's also afraid of him. Such men do go all out to isolate their spouses from family members; its typical behaviour of such absuive men. On a wider level no-one seems to be able to stand up to him (your Mum has brought meals over to them in the past). I think your Mum is rightly worried to be worried about your sister being married to someone as controlling as he is.

Would suggest you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft. It may give you some insight into how such men operate.

OMG your mum may want a quiet life but by rolling over like that she is going to get walked all over!! She takes food to them 5 miles away??? Anyone who 'puts her foot down and then gives in' is prime doormat material. Your sister is 31 ffs and well able to organise her own childcare/dinner/church going.

Your mum is a doormat.

I'd talk to your dad about it, actually. He might be more inclined to play the bad guy and say "Er, no WAY is this happening".

Is your sister actually that happy to be having babies? She sounds utterly overwhelmed by it all, really.

Attila- She's 31. The weird thing is, she's always been treated exceptionally well. Mum and dad have done their best for all of us, I've got to say, but she moved her DH in for 8 whole years and he never worked in that time- he had everything off mum and dad... probably a lot more than the rest of us tbh. he's not like actually abusive as such, he's just controlling and older than her which doesn't help as she thinks he's the bees knees and he's not. I will definately give that book a read as I've always wanted to understand him and can't. Thanks

Captain- Yep they've been getting her to cook and deliver tea since my sis got pregnant. My family absolutely adore my DP because he's fantastic and he treats me so well and he's going to be the perfect dad- I get the feeling my sister's DH kind of resents him a little. I do feel terrible for mum but she always backs down because she said she knows I'm always ok and I've got DP but my sis gets a lot of shit off her DH so mum likes to be there for her all the time.

Hunker- I think you're right about talking to dad as I think he will definately put his foot down. She tried for 7 years and she's over the moon but her Dh always told her it was her fault she couldn't have them and she was useless so I think she's terrified of being a useless mum too. She said to me that she's a 'failure', but she's good at everything she does, and not being able to conceive is not being a failure. I don't feel like I know her anymore. She's very different with me and ignores my texts and phone calls a lot of the time. She also said she'll never be the same with me because I could conceive naturally 1st month and she had to have IVF. She's terrified of everything about pregnancy, I think, and her DH gets really annoyed if she moans about morning sickness or anything. I do feel sorry for her. But I've had 11 years of this now so I'm tired of her coming first in the family, I just want her to acknowledge that a) I'm having a baby too and my mum needs to be part of his life, and B) My mum needs her own life and cannot be slave anymore.

mumblesmummy

I hope you find the book useful, it shows how these men tick.

There's no two ways about it, controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. I feel for your sister being involved with someone like him because she may never wake up to the reality of what he is really like.

On a wider level I think she has always thought herself as a "failure" (you've likely to have been perceived by your parents as the capable one and thus left), her husband telling her as much never helped her shaky sense of self worth to start with. He has made an underlying problem far worse. She may well be ignoring your phone calls because of his reaction to them, he is isolating her further from her own family and friends.

I think you could help by looking beyond the baby stage which your baby isn't going to remember anyway.

I think it's more important for kids to know their grandparents when they're 3+ - which your baby will and will also have two children of the same age to play with.

mumbles
Ithink you need to draw a line under it. At the end of the day, she has a crap marriage, obviously her self esteem is in the toilet - her day to day existence must be nothing compared to yours. She may get what ever she wants from your mum, but really, you have so much more and probably always will.

BTW, do you really think your mum is helping her by giving in so much?

I read the OP several times and am quite surprised at the rivalry and hostility between the two sisters.

First sister is 'whinging' that nan will be looking after OP's baby, then when she decides to leave her baby there only once a day or so, other sister (understandably) asks nan to look after her babies, which she (understandably) accepts.

I don't understand the problem. Was she supposed to say "No" to her own daughter? And why can't OP still leave her baby with nan one day out of the week? Yes, three babies will be tough at the same time, but only slightly tougher than two. OP is working part-time so she can be there as well.

If I told my mum I was arranging childcare for DD rather than leave her to her care, she would not speak to me again. [If we were living in the same city, that is] Is this a cultural thing?

Not trying to contradict the atmosphere of sympathy (of OP) and condemnation (of her sis) here, just genuinely confused.

Answer to whoever asked if a childminder would be allowed 3 babies this age - NO. We're allowed ONE child under the age of 1 but may get a variation for twins but wouldn't be able to have THREE under 1's - the max of under 5's we're allowed is 3 at a time unless we have a variation.

I'm that your mum would have to pay for milk, nappies and whatever the twins need whilst with her!!! And also about the food she's made and taken to them, your sister's H sounds awful

God I didn't realise how awful we sound until I've put it all down. We used to be sooooooooooooooooo close and such a perfect family. i wish I'd never said any of it because I feel awful now and I've really realised that I'm the luckier of the two of us even if it appears she has the beautiful house, nice car, great job and wage etc etc. I'll cut her some slack, she was like my favourite person when we were growing up and i always looked up to her. Its her DH that has done all this, I'm sure.

CoteDAzure- the main issue is that my mum shouldn't be expected to look after babies 5 days a week when she's already raised her kids. It's too much for her and she has her own life. Seeing her grandchildren should be leisurely and a lot less often than this. She feels really put upon but doesn't know how to say no because of it being such an awkward situation. She wants to look after my baby because we're really close and she wants to be able to look after them all, it's just that it's not feasable.

Attila- I'm going to let mum read the book too as she can't understand him either. It sounds like he's an ogre but he's not because he's really nice to other people, and he'll love the babies to bits, but it's just that he's like it with my sister.

I think it's safe to say that it's a big mess and I didn't realise how much until I typed it all out. I think the best thing I can do is let it all blow over and then decide what I'm doing with my son for the 12 hours when i go back to work a lot closer to the time.

I can second reading that book - I was recommended to read it earlier this year. It's hard going but it really is an eye-opener.

mumbles - totally know where you are coming from .
My brother and his waste of space of a wife take the p* out of my parents re childcare and cash (lots of cash).
Have tried to do all I can over the years and in the end all I could say to my parents is that it was up to them when it ends.

My parents are fully aware of the outrageous position that they are in but are so soft they go along with it for an easy life.
I asked my parents to stop coming to me about it as it lies in their hands - they have to get tough. I would approach my brother on their behalf when asked regularly only to find my parents caving in each time to save hassle and I always ended up being the baddie.

My husband cannot believe what my parents let my brother away with - but I now feel the only way I can cope is by keeping clear.

I treat my parents well and no one can ever accuse me of not trying to help them and look out for their interests.

Only my parents can change things ......

I feel so much better and less stressed now that I have switched off ...
I would advise you to do the same and enjoy this special time with your baby .......

"It sounds like he's an ogre but he's not because he's really nice to other people, and he'll love the babies to bits, but it's just that he's like it with my sister".

He will certainly leave your sister to do all the donkey work relating to the babies.

Many controlling abusers are alike in the way you describe; they're very plausible to all in the outside world. Behind closed doors though its a different story entirely as your sister has discovered.

When your Mum and your good self read the book it will give you both more insight into why he acts as he does.

Thanks Attila, you've been a real help. I've got to admit I didn't realise he'd fit into an 'abuse' catagory until you explained to me and now I see it. Clearly it's not always violence, and can be mental rather than physical. I feel terrible for her now and I'm going to try to support her.

Babbi- I don't mean to sound selfish because it's awful that you have the same situation, but I'm so relieved there's someone else who has the same issue!!! I guess it's just one of those things, and I'm going to try to get used to it as you have had to.

I've actually sent an e-mail to my mum and put down everything I feel. We went shopping and for lunch today and I had a chance to talk to her about it, which we didn't mean to do, but it must have been playing on our minds and we had a good chat. She knows exactly where I'm coming from, but I think she too has realised how difficult things are for my sister and so that's why she's trying to help. She's said she will propose that she minds the twins 3 days a week, and them go to baby nursery the other days, and she wants us to spend lots of time together, like going for walks with the babies, she's happy to go to baby group with me, and lots of other things. She was lovely about it all and she'd also replied to my e-mail explaining her point of view, and what she intends to do. Which I'm fine with.

As long as mum's ok and she gets to spend time with all the babies, there's no problem. However, if it comes back to the 5 day thing, or my sister pushes for it, I'll just explain to my sister.

Thanks everyone for views and advice, it's been a real help.

I hope it's resolved satisfactorily, MM. I'd be interested to hear what happens, so do post an update, won't you?

Yeah, I'll let you know what goes on. Hopefully it's getting discussed soon so I'll know a bit more.

How's it going, MM?