To think this is awful? (Just Stop Oil protesters throwing soup over Van Gogh painting)

[TheCatsPyjamas1]

Just read that some Just Stop Oil protesters have thrown soup over a Van Gogh painting in the National Gallery in London. AIBU to think this is unacceptable?

I fully support the message of the group (investing in environmentally responsible energy rather than fossil fuels, and helping to make society more equal for everyone), but I find their protest methods are awful and risk alienating people who would otherwise support them.

They keep on doing crazy things, and seem to be escalating their action each time they protest. I don’t really know when or how it’ll end.

Disagree with fracking as the evidence clearly indicates the risks outweigh the benefits. Agree about nuclear though and that should have been done years ago and in house without outsourcing to EDF!

You have fuel poverty because you wouldn’t frack and you didn’t build those nuclear power plants like you should have 10 years ago.

so still selling fuel, not insulating new & old homes and putting solar and airforce heating in to reduce the need for buying so much fuel, rainwater harvesting.

I think it’s a fairly mild protest, throwing soup at a glass protected oil painting. Try throwing red wine at a medieval tapestry!

someone has to stand up to climate change, not just let it happen.

New homes are insulated and many old homes cannot be effectively insulated. Insulate Britain is bollocks for that very reason. Agree with solar to offset carbon based fuels though.

Fuel poverty is NOT because the UK doesn't frack. The companies themselves say it is not really viable in the UK because the geology and presence of homes etc make it unviable. Fuel poverty is related to the huge global oil and gas industries holding immense power over the people of the world because everyone NEEDS fuel for heating transportation manufacturing etc. Gas and oil exist under countries that have dodgy governments (Russia and the Gulf as well as the USA) so THEY rule the roost. The other end of the story is that everyone needs to use as few resources as possible, so insulation of all buildings, research (or re learn) techniques for building that use minimal resources. Putting more clothes on to keep warm, don't follow 'fashion' so slavishly which is incredibly wasteful. thousands of tons of 'unsold clothes from UK shops get sent to Asia to go into landfill because they are unwanted because 'fashion' has changed. THAT is an obscenity in itself and is so easily stopped. many UK problems are down to crippling failures in Diplomacy. As awkward as it may feel but the UK HAS to get along with neighbouring countries, and regimes that are abhorrent and simply stamping your feet won't change that. If you want to borrow some money from somebody for example, would you start the discussion by punching them in the face? No, you wouldn't. The UK government has been doing this either quietly or overtly for decades and left British Ambassadors to try and smooth things over as quietly as possible. The Tory government particularly don't seem to have understood that the UK does not have an Empire any more and as such it needs diplomacy more than ever for the UK citizens to retain the quality of life that it had got used to.

It can be surprising just how large the carbon footprint of your mortgage is.
www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/16/carbon-footprint-mortgage

@LimpBiskit new homes are not insulated to the degree that other countries in the northern hemisphere insulated, which vastly improves the heat retention.

Not all old homes can be insulated, but that doesn't stop other homes being insulated and in particular that would be a vast majority of council homes.

Its not bollocks to make improvements, the people living in these homes would certainly benefit both health wise and if they could save 25% on their fuel bill rather than 50% they'll still take the 25%

*Fuel poverty is related to the huge global oil and gas industries holding immense power over the people of the world because everyone NEEDS fuel for heating transportation manufacturing etc Gas and oil exist under countries that have dodgy governments (Russia and the Gulf as well as the USA) so THEY rule the roost

No, it’s about (artificially) restricted supply. Europe halved domestic oil production since about 2010, so of course you are at the mercy of foreign governments when it comes to pricing.

Wtf did you think would happen when you started relying on others to serve critical needs like energy just so you could chase the green mirage?

That’s why I say Europeans are children.

Apocalyptic beliefs ☝️

This mentality is similar to that behind destroying the Bamiyan Buddhas. Someone has to stand up to idolatry!

They won’t stop at Van Gogh, they may escalate to destroy actual works of art.

We are nowhere near passivehaus standards if that's what you're getting at but we are also a much wetter country which means we need more ventilation than some other countries too. High insulation can be achieved but it requires active ventilation systems to work properly and they are very expensive. The U values set out in Building regs 2022 are sufficient for our climate and increasing them means significant structural change. Pre existing housing stock cannot be insulated beyond a certain point and many houses, including many council houses cannot be insulated beyond their build spec. For example, it's just cost my local council nearly a million to remove the insulation from some of their properties due to it causing damp. The insulation acts as a bridging material and draws moisture into the properties. The cavity is there for a reason. I think most people have their houses insulated to the optimum levels and this has been an ongoing process for decades.

{BerriesOnTop · Today 15:34}
Since when are Europeans children?
There are many different needs and opinions across the 27 Countries of the EU and more if you include other non EU members so a blanket dismissal of 450 million people is rather silly. artificially regulated supply, yes of course it is, OPEC for which the UK is largely a tagalong member. When it comes to it you will discover the UK is very reliant on Europe just to survive and Brexit has been an exercise in slapping the people who would help you in the face. Fracking if viable would take 5 years absolute minimum to come onstram and as gas prices are determined globally the price would not be determined by the UK.
As limpbiskit says UK housing is way behind 'best practice' and the sluggish adoption of techniques used elsewhere in Europe is just part of it. House building is controlled by government and mainly in the hands of Tory donors.
Climate change will affect UK homeowners because hotter summers and colder/wetter winters will shift the requirements . Measures to control excess rainwater runoff have only been introduced relatively recently and this affects the whole drainage and sewer systems. Newbuild estates now have to have rainwater capture/dispersal schemes which are relatively easy to implement but retrofitting to old estates is massively intrusive. Building on flood plains never was a good idea as the groundworks necessary to protect them are immense.

What do you suppose us normal folk can do though? I drive trucks, delivering essential goods. The stuff that people need to eat, to survive.
I drive a petrol car to work and work various shifts at anti social hours.
Please tell me what I can personally do.

And what if other big polluters, such as Russia, China and India?
What do they do ?

I can only assume the people on here who side with those idiots who climbed a bridge were not affected by them.
Never mind poor innocent people with children , old people, and sick people who were stuck in cars for hours.

Those two men endangered their own lives and used up lots of public services. You know, the public services that are at breaking point

But if you weren’t affected and live in ivory towers, I’m happy for you.

And if you think those two men actually will change the attitude of global , multibillion dolllar oil companies, then you’re even more stupid ( or naive) than I thought.

but we are also a much wetter country which means we need more ventilation than some other countries too.

Hamburg germany has a higher average rainfall than the U.K. and is leading europe on insulation, Nederlands, Belgium also have higher rainfall

there are other countries in Europe with higher rainfall but have warmer climate so I haven’t included them.

germany is leading the way with insulation in Europe

what you’re saying doesn’t stack up as correct

By the same token, we cannot let domestic terrorism set policy.

@ladyofshertonabbas

Exactly this

I'm referring to current housing stock. New builds can be made to similar standards to Germany. Retrofitting to properties that weren't designed for it can lead to damp. hence the need for ventilation. Historically, UK houses were built with a requirement for ventilation and that still stands on those existing properties unless you fit costly heat recovery systems.

New builds can be made to similar standards to Germany.

yet there not 🤷‍♀️ And thus the protesting to get insulation

why are you so against this and make up excuses that it’s due to more rain ☔️ Which is clearly untrue

I think they are awful. We’re only a few years off climate terrorists, I think.

They’ve been remanded into prison until 17th November.

I think it's focussing on the wrong area. Germany isn't a good comparison for many reasons. Housing stock is being demolished at the rate of 1 in 8. Property is much more expensive than in the UK. The majority of houses are owned by big corporations and rented out. We have a completely different model over here and it would need a completely different approach to housing to make it feasible.
There are other areas that could be focussed on that would make more impact and be achievable.

Making cement for concrete and production of glass are both highly energy intensive industries and replacing pipes uses plenty of plastic (as well as UPVC for replacement window frames) then the cost of actually doing the renewal work so some serious work with sharp pencils is needed to work out whether it is 'best' to rebuild or upgrade. As Limpbizkit says or alludes to, the mentality in Germany is significantly different to the UK. They tend to build well with many considerations for sustainability and as their laws 'protect' renters, people can feel mentally relaxed in rented property. Building regulations allow for more innovation. houses are designed and built to great detail. I went to Reutlingen on school exchange in 1972 and the family I stayed with lived in an apartment complex that was immaculate, had a communal heating system and had a supermarket (Karga). Houses must NEVER be waterproof as moisture must always be considered and it's dispersal must be designed in. A human breathes or sweats about around a litre of water overnight. Scandinavian countries use a lot of triple glazed windows and again innovative designs to manage airflow.
The UK is stuck with the mentality that is actually one of the major restrictions on growth in that a 'sticking plaster' will do. Practically the whole of Europe had the railway and road networks trashed during WW2 so HAD to rebuild afresh and new technologies (of that time) were embraced. The UK was relatively undamaged and the UK Government preferred to use Marshal plan money to retain the 'Empire' rather than investing on 'modernity' and good design.
Good to see the german 'scientists for change' protesters getting their comeuppance. They glued themselves to the floor in a Porche showroom. The showroom security simply turned off the heating and lights and left them overnight and the police came in to arrest them in the morning. No food or bathroom facilities.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11341163/Pictured-NHS-Hero-died-M20-crash-ambulance-delayed-Dartford-Crossing-activists.html

Above article regarding a fatal road crash , the ambulance was delayed due to the protest.

The problem is that any kind of action will fail to attract attention unless campaigners cross a line that many find unacceptable. Peaceful protests and petitions have done very little in the past 30 years.

For those who don’t like the soupy painting protest, what should people who want a liveable environment for our kids and grand kids do to push for change. It isn’t enough to lower personal carbon footprints etc.