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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is awful? (Just Stop Oil protesters throwing soup over Van Gogh painting)

613 replies

TheCatsPyjamas1 · 14/10/2022 12:44

Just read that some Just Stop Oil protesters have thrown soup over a Van Gogh painting in the National Gallery in London. AIBU to think this is unacceptable?

I fully support the message of the group (investing in environmentally responsible energy rather than fossil fuels, and helping to make society more equal for everyone), but I find their protest methods are awful and risk alienating people who would otherwise support them.

They keep on doing crazy things, and seem to be escalating their action each time they protest. I don’t really know when or how it’ll end.

OP posts:
Perfect28 · 18/10/2022 06:53

I fully support and endorse just stop oil. They very briefly got soup on some glass. Meanwhile the entire fate of the planet is going to shit because we have corrupt and incompetent leaders. Direct your anger at the right place maybe?

BloodAndFire · 18/10/2022 08:07

StarmanBobby · 18/10/2022 00:01

Got everyone’s attention though, didn’t it?

So did Jeffrey Dahmer.

Most people over the age of 8 realise that 'getting attention' isn't an achievement in itself.

BloodAndFire · 18/10/2022 08:09

Perfect28 · 18/10/2022 06:53

I fully support and endorse just stop oil. They very briefly got soup on some glass. Meanwhile the entire fate of the planet is going to shit because we have corrupt and incompetent leaders. Direct your anger at the right place maybe?

Do you have a finite supply of anger that has to be carefully rationed?

I don't. I'm able to hate the government and big businesses AND think these people are twats as well.

Perfect28 · 18/10/2022 08:20

I only have so much energy, like we all do, so yes. Pick your battles

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 08:25

Millions of people worldwide are dying and being displaced and all people can do is moan about people trying to get it into the bloody news

Fossil fuels are lifesaving. They create lifesaving infrastructure, heat and cool homes, give a massive boost to agriculture through chemical fertilisers, byproducts are used for medication and medical devices.

You want to save people in the developing world? Give them coal plants, roads, decent housing, larger-scale agriculture.

China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other government — through industrialisation. Would that other developing countries follow their model (and I have no particular love for the current Chinese government either)

Blossomtoes · 18/10/2022 08:29

Millions of people worldwide are dying and being displaced and all people can do is moan about people trying to get it into the bloody news

They haven’t got it into the bloody news though. Most people have absolute no idea what they were trying to accomplish, attention is firmly focused on the vandalism. For which there’s little sympathy.

thedancingbear · 18/10/2022 08:29

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 08:25

Millions of people worldwide are dying and being displaced and all people can do is moan about people trying to get it into the bloody news

Fossil fuels are lifesaving. They create lifesaving infrastructure, heat and cool homes, give a massive boost to agriculture through chemical fertilisers, byproducts are used for medication and medical devices.

You want to save people in the developing world? Give them coal plants, roads, decent housing, larger-scale agriculture.

China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other government — through industrialisation. Would that other developing countries follow their model (and I have no particular love for the current Chinese government either)

Bought to you straight from the BP public relations team.

thedancingbear · 18/10/2022 08:30

Blossomtoes · 18/10/2022 08:29

Millions of people worldwide are dying and being displaced and all people can do is moan about people trying to get it into the bloody news

They haven’t got it into the bloody news though. Most people have absolute no idea what they were trying to accomplish, attention is firmly focused on the vandalism. For which there’s little sympathy.

You're completely wrong. At least everyone on this thread understands at least in general terms what their goals are, even those calling the protesters brats etc.

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 08:36

thedancingbear · 18/10/2022 08:29

Bought to you straight from the BP public relations team.

You can believe that if you want. But it doesn’t change the reality that our way of life is based on cheap access to fossil fuels—and Europe in particular hasn’t done enough work to secure that access and they will suffer for it. But blame Putin or America or anything but themselves who have caused this very problem

ivykaty44 · 18/10/2022 08:38

At least everyone on this thread understands at least in general terms what their goals are

sadly I don't think that people do understand the goals and the MSM have spun their own spin on this as they are owned by the people that are deniers

I obviously from my posts don't think these people are brats, I am amazed by the diversity of people that are staging these protests, lawyers, doctors, accountants who have retired are very predominant in these groups - calling them brats seems peculiar when so many are well passed middled age and have had a decent standing throughout their working lives.

Blossomtoes · 18/10/2022 08:54

At least everyone on this thread understands at least in general terms what their goals are,

Newsflash - this thread’s not the world. And I have no idea what their goals are. Nor, I suspect, do they.

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 08:58

Berries, you are quoting the IPCC report in the most selective way, hinting that any other reading of unfolding world events is alarmist, ill-informed and overly dramatic. This is so sneaky! Parts of the world are indeed becoming 'unlivable' as a direct consequence of man-made climate change: in my professional role I often meet families from countries who report how life is increasingly hazardous or impoverished as a direct result of adverse climate conditions

Adverse climate conditions have always been with us. How we deal with it is good infrastructure. Even you know this. Why would we want people to live like this when they could live as comfortably as you or I?

Europe stopping using fossil fuels will only hurt yourselves and the people you mention will not be helped one bit.

Jordan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Mali, Afghanistan and Somalia

People have been quite comfortable now in the Arabian peninsula thanks to copious use of fossil fuels. No one could really live there without them except for nomadic groups living on the literal margins, their lifestyle is not an easy one as you also must know.

Further up the thread you suggest that my suggestion to manage our expectations of our future standard of living and working toward sustainable adaptations will cause more death and misery (I paraphrase) than climate change. Really? What do you think is being advocated? We cannot pursue a global or national growth economy indefinitely on a planet of finite resources

People are already having to choose between energy and food due to artificial scarcity. The drop in living standards is now at your door and you have no solution other than further cutbacks. You say resources are scarce, but then it’s all artificial, since you don’t support further exploration efforts. Peak oil is not even talked about anymore, it was a total myth.

Do you even know how important fossil fuels are to something as basic as agriculture? Inputs from the fertilisers all the way to harvest. You cannot get away from it.

Additionally, if you want birth rates to drop in the developing world, the best thing you could do is … develop it. Look at East Asia’s huge drops in birth rates after each individual countries’ development. We need to other countries to follow the East Asian model.

A gradual transition to sustainable alternatives will be necessary. Failure to make timely adaptations to mitigate future damage is what will cause untold harm

You could advocate for nuclear power in energy generation. But green advocates rarely do.

I have lived in China for much of my life (though not anymore). I have seen how industrialisation has improved the living standards of the average person tremendously and people like you act as if that’s a bad thing. Flooding and earthquakes used to kill tens of thousands when they happened—and even though the population is bigger, deaths have dropped precipitously thanks to better building standards (fossil fuels), better roads in and out (fossil fuels), better emergency equipment (fossil fuels), better hospitals (again powered by fossil fuels).

You have nothing to offer a developing country whilst asking your fellow European to take a pointless hit to their living standards.

It honestly makes me angry how myopic Europeans can be.

BloodAndFire · 18/10/2022 09:05

Perfect28 · 18/10/2022 08:20

I only have so much energy, like we all do, so yes. Pick your battles

Thinking these protestors are wankers achieving less than nothing doesn't take any energy. Nor is it a battle. Trying to convince myself otherwise would be q lot more difficult.

CherryGenoa · 18/10/2022 09:25

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 08:25

Millions of people worldwide are dying and being displaced and all people can do is moan about people trying to get it into the bloody news

Fossil fuels are lifesaving. They create lifesaving infrastructure, heat and cool homes, give a massive boost to agriculture through chemical fertilisers, byproducts are used for medication and medical devices.

You want to save people in the developing world? Give them coal plants, roads, decent housing, larger-scale agriculture.

China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other government — through industrialisation. Would that other developing countries follow their model (and I have no particular love for the current Chinese government either)

The fossil fuel industry receives $11 million per MINUTE in subsidies according to the IMF, so industry PR minions are deployed to spread misinformation in order to protect those interests. This is what this poster represents.

The latest IPCC report warns that the world is set to reach the 1.5ºC level within the next two decades and only the most drastic cuts in carbon emissions will help avert environmental disaster, resource wars and mass human suffering, all over the world.

Fossil fuel reserves need to stay in the ground now. No further expansion, no opening of coal plants, no new licences.

Oh and by the way

You want to save people in the developing world? Give them coal plants, roads, decent housing, larger-scale agriculture.

Why did the oil and gas industry not put the 3 billion $ per day profits earned every day for the past 50 years to make this happen then? They have had ample time and resources to make a difference to the developing world in the ways described. Didn’t happen. And now this approach would be very unwise. Follow the science.

CherryGenoa · 18/10/2022 09:34

Fossil fuel companies have long known about man made climate change and as you see from my previous post, had the resources to transition citizens smoothly to a low carbon, sustainable lifestyle that would not reduce living standards. But they didn’t.

Justkidding55 · 18/10/2022 09:43

The venom people have towards protests is bizarre. Be careful what you wish for because rights to protest are being continually eroded and that is the real thing we should be worried about. If this government has its way we won’t be allowed to protest at all and we already have a PM with no actual power, doing things that weren’t in their manifesto and by people we didn’t vote for. Imagine when protest is banned? They are doing it by the backdoor. Who decides what’s peaceful? Who decides where is a good place or time to protest? Anyone can say a protest is inconvenient.

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 09:51

The fossil fuel industry receives $11 million per MINUTE in subsidies according to the IMF, so industry PR minions are deployed to spread misinformation in order to protect those interests. This is what this poster represents

So anyone who has an opposing POV is some industry shill? That’s some logic you have. Very sad this is the only way you can handle an opposing opinion in your mind.

Why did the oil and gas industry not put the 3 billion $ per day profits earned every day for the past 50 years to make this happen then?

Their wheelhouse is fossil fuel extraction. They probably wouldn’t be any good at development work, now would they? It’s not just a matter of money but a commitment to providing a good environment for businesses to thrive. Money is easy to give (and into the wrong hands), the hard work of creating infrastructure is not (Europeans should know this lol what with the HS2 and inability to get nuclear power plants up and running 🤦‍♀️).

In China, this was first done in places like Shezhen, where migrants flocked to pick up a poorly paid (but good for China) job in one of the many export-oriented factories. After making some money, they would often open their own small businesses back home as a knock-on effect. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan has similar experiences (although iirc took a more direct route in picking winners in key industries). Luckily there was a big market in the US to sell their products, but pre-Covid they were making good headway selling their cheap goods in the MENA and South America.

Blossomtoes · 18/10/2022 09:51

I have no issue with protests. I went on plenty of marches in my time and I was at Greenham. My issue is with wanton waste and destruction to no good end. Wave as many placards as you want, shout as much as you want, it’s fine with me. Slinging tins of soup at paintings and pouring milk on a supermarket floor - just fuck off and stop behaving like a brat.

Mardyface · 18/10/2022 09:53

Honestly I'm starting to think most of these 'issue of the day' threads are started by journalists or government and industry schills to guage opinion or spread the party/industry line. I'm never eloquent enough to refute things eloquently so thank goodness for people like @CherryGenoa and others.

BerriesOnTop · 18/10/2022 10:02

CherryGenoa · 18/10/2022 09:34

Fossil fuel companies have long known about man made climate change and as you see from my previous post, had the resources to transition citizens smoothly to a low carbon, sustainable lifestyle that would not reduce living standards. But they didn’t.

And what, pray tell, would these companies be transitioning to?

Because solar and wind cannot sustain a modern economy.

Hydroelectric power has limits, and can be too contentious in developing countries (build a dam and then you are denying people water downstream).

Only nuclear power can replace fossil fuels in electricity generation. But even that cannot touch the needs of the agricultural industry nor the shipping/transport section, nor pharmaceuticals and medical devices, among other needs.

You just aren’t being very realistic.

Stars71 · 18/10/2022 10:22

Vikinga · 18/10/2022 00:35

Oh do piss off. Brave activists risk their lives and their freedom all over the world. So get off your pathetic soap box and do something useful. When people are trying to save your lives and your future at least be grateful or stfu

Another aggressive post. You don't see, do you, how your attitude just does you zero favours. It is why childish antics of the 'protestors' get them nowhere. You go about it entirely the wrong way. No, I won't STFU.

CurzonDax · 18/10/2022 10:22

Perfect28 · 18/10/2022 06:53

I fully support and endorse just stop oil. They very briefly got soup on some glass. Meanwhile the entire fate of the planet is going to shit because we have corrupt and incompetent leaders. Direct your anger at the right place maybe?

They very briefly got soup on some glass.

Erm - try telling that to the local residents of Kent and Essex right now, due to those idiots on the QE2 bridge.
The second day in a row of massive traffic delays - those people stuck in traffic for over two hours, missing hospital appointments at Darent Valley Hospital. Or those just trying to get to work, so they can afford to pay their bills and feed themselves/their families, during a cost of living crisis.

We're not just talking about people being annoyed as they're missing a day of shopping at Lakeside/Bluewater - we're talking about normal people just trying to live. For those people, this is not just some soup on some glass.

The bridge idiots are causing massive disruptions, and targeting the wrong people - after the show in government yesterday, I doubt anyone in government is bothered by the disruption caused to Joe Bloggs in Thurrock.

Stars71 · 18/10/2022 10:30

Justkidding55 · 18/10/2022 09:43

The venom people have towards protests is bizarre. Be careful what you wish for because rights to protest are being continually eroded and that is the real thing we should be worried about. If this government has its way we won’t be allowed to protest at all and we already have a PM with no actual power, doing things that weren’t in their manifesto and by people we didn’t vote for. Imagine when protest is banned? They are doing it by the backdoor. Who decides what’s peaceful? Who decides where is a good place or time to protest? Anyone can say a protest is inconvenient.

Well with the way things are going, protests WILL be banned. These people don't know how to protest peacefully, without causing destruction.The only good they are doing is making people realise even more how our police is a service, not a force. Namby pamby tactics are used rather than forcing the buggers to move out of the way of ambulances etc.

Justkidding55 · 18/10/2022 10:49

Stars71 · 18/10/2022 10:30

Well with the way things are going, protests WILL be banned. These people don't know how to protest peacefully, without causing destruction.The only good they are doing is making people realise even more how our police is a service, not a force. Namby pamby tactics are used rather than forcing the buggers to move out of the way of ambulances etc.

@Stars71 what would you do if you were a corrupt government who wanted protests banned? You’d encourage or even set up fake protests and plant protesters to encourage this along. I wouldn’t put it past them to have done this. Many groups have.
the Sarah everard protests were peaceful and it made no difference.
They could sit nicely by the side of the road and people could still claim they are being a nuisance.
you all sound like far right nutters tbh who coincidentally also don’t want rights for anyone either.

BigWoollyJumpers · 18/10/2022 10:55

Justkidding55 · 18/10/2022 10:49

@Stars71 what would you do if you were a corrupt government who wanted protests banned? You’d encourage or even set up fake protests and plant protesters to encourage this along. I wouldn’t put it past them to have done this. Many groups have.
the Sarah everard protests were peaceful and it made no difference.
They could sit nicely by the side of the road and people could still claim they are being a nuisance.
you all sound like far right nutters tbh who coincidentally also don’t want rights for anyone either.

Or we could do like France, rip their hands off the road, baton charge protesters, tear gas them.

Or we could have a happy medium. Protest peacefully, quietly, and don't disrupt the lives of others, who many not agree with your protest. Would you feel differently, if for example, a load of anti-abortionists were blocking entrances to hospitals..... they are allowed to protest after all.