To think that renters have put up with big monthly rises for years

[Upthebracket22]

We rent because we have been priced out of the housing market for years & years. We have raised our kids in a rented house & put up with large rises in monthly payments. We’ve been ‘lucky’ in that we’ve been on our current house for 10 years.

Noone has given a flying fuck about renters & the amount we pay & have had to find extra each year but now it’s mortgages going up, it’s all ‘poor mortgage holders’ - it’s really grating on me.

As it goes, the coming housing downturn will mean we actually might be able to buy a house. Safe secure affordable housing is a good thing.

the current housing boom has been created by cheap money and that era is ending. An entire generation of people have been priced out of a safe home & while I don’t want to people in difficulty, renters have had to put up with it for years ‘move to a cheaper area’ being the main nonsense.

We are a normal family with good jobs but saving for a deposit has been impossible because of insanely high rents.

i am tired of the ‘poor mortgage holder’ rhetoric when those of us trapped in rented homes have put up with large monthly hikes for years.

i know this won’t be a popular view on here but for us renters, the last decade had been difficult and no one has given a shit.

I'm a landlord and my mortgages have gone up monthly recently but my rents don't and won't. In fact, I've just written to the agents to say I don't want any increases at the next opportunity. It's not fair. The way the government is behaving just now is scandulous, so this is the least I can do to mitigate things.

I think there are regulations on how often rents can be increased and most of my tenants are on fixed terms. Shelter can advise if people think there's something dodgy going on.

I'd actually dearly love to sell up to get my mortgages paid down and also because I'm fed up of the bad reputation landlords have when I meet all the requirements. But I will wait until people choose to leave as I think it's unfair to deprive people of their homes.

The way things are going, it'll be back to the days of the only people who are landlords are the dodgy ones, who ignore that there are actually rules and regulations.

Also, my poor deluded son is not going to university so that he can buy a 2 bedroom house at the age of 27 in readiness to have children by 30. He's doing an illustration degree, because despite everything some people still want to be artists! And yes, even my head in the clouds idealistic son deserves secure housing

I haven't noticed a gleeful tone at all. But there are a lot of people in this country who have disdain for people who rent, thinking that it must be a result of personal failings or poor financial decisions.

I have seen a lot of people on Mumsnet (not on this thread) who have been paying very cheap mortgages for years and are panicking at the thought of their payments increasing. Or think the government should bail out people who "were forced" to take huge mortgages out because they "had no other option". I have empathy for anyone struggling to pay their bills and I also have empathy for people who are struggling to buy a home.

But if someone is struggling to pay their mortgage with what are higher, but still historically low, interest rates, one of these things must be true:

1. If you can only afford to pay your mortgage if interest rates are incredibly low, you cannot afford that house with your current wages/expenses. This makes you no different than the renter who cannot afford to buy at current prices. You are not somehow more financially savvy or successful because you managed to get the mortgage in the first place. You both can't afford it. And taking out a huge mortgage because prices are high and expecting interest rates to stay low is in itself a poor financial decision.
2. You are on a higher wage but rather than taking advantage of the years of low interest rates and putting the excess money into savings or investments, you spent it on things you probably didn't need. This is no different than the renter with their avocado toast.

I believe the people in all the scenarios above deserve our empathy, but if you are the type of person who is going to smugly criticise the renter, you have to be equally smug about the homeowner because there isn't really a difference.

'Surely'. Again, lack of imagination, as if there aren't countless things that can happen to wipe out savings, like oh the financial crisis and redundancies, supporting family members, ill health. Yes we had savings but not enough for a deposit and our salaries weren't high enough.

Someone mentioned earlier that mortgage lenders should look at rental history more than salary multipliers. If this happens, we could buy! Stop looking at renters as failures, if the system were different we wouldn't have to rent. A mortgage would still be cheaper than my rent right now, obviously we could make it work.

Out of interest OP what size property would a 6 figure deposit get you where you are?

Someone mentioned earlier that mortgage lenders should look at rental history more than salary multipliers.

I'd love that! You could see that people never miss rental payments so clearly have a steady income for mortgage payments.

Renting doesn't mean the person is a failure, it's the housing market that's failing people.

Can I also just say THANK YOU to all the great landlords on here who are not raising rents. You're amazing.

@mummyh2016 a 2-3 bed terrace at most. That’s mainly because we are a bit older as we have been saving for so long too! I do have a bit of a deposit saved but it’s not enough!

Like I said though- I’d rent for life it if it was more secure!

Totally agree with you OP. We have been fortunate enough to buy our own house but I agree that the housing situation in the UK is a disgrace.

There should have been a correction (crash) years ago and a big reset.

@Stellaris22 EXACTLY and @dreamingbohemian 😂

House prices themselves aren’t an issue, the issue is the difference between average house price and average wage.

If you look at the data from the beginning to the end of the 20th century, this gap followed a pattern, a number of years where an average house would cost 4 - 4.5 times the average wage, a brief period of sharp increases maxing out at between 6 - 7.5, followed by an equally quick decrease back to the 4-4.5 “base”.

At the turn of the 20th century the pattern remained the same, the gap stared increasing from 4.5, reaching a peak of just over 8 in 2008. However, unlike previous crashes governments stepped in. This prevented the gap from decreasing back to the usual 4-4.5 base and meant when the next price spike began it didn’t start from the 4-4.5 base but from around 7.

The gap between average house price and average wage is now up over 8 again and fast approach a level between not seen since the Victorian times.

There’s only two possibilities now either house prices contract or wages rise until a more manageable gap is achieved. Given wages would need to more than double to reach the 4-4.5 gap then most logical outcome is a housing market contraction.

Yes, exactly!

My DH and I have been renters for 30 years. Never even late with a payment, excellent credit records. It's so frustrating that this doesn't matter for anything.

House prices themselves aren’t an issue, the issue is the difference between average house price and average wage.

Look at wages over the last decade. Which is why everyone I know has had to have help even whilst working hard. Doesn't mean those who don't have help are making bad choices.

Sorry, haven't read the pages of comments but wanted to add my thoughts! I rented for years before purchasing our first home, we've now just sold and moved to a bigger place.

Our rent for a mouldy, run-down 2-bed in a not-so-nice area of Bristol was 900pcm in 2018. We could afford it on our income at the time, despite small increases in rental prices each year. It, however, still felt extortionate. Especially given how our landlady seemed to feign deafness every time we mentioned the growing mould issue.

Nowadays our mortgage is 1150pcm, along with associated costs of homeownership like repairs and suchlike. If mortgage interest rates are still up near 6% by the time our fixed term ends in 2024, we will be utterly bollocked. Our mortgage is likely to rise upwards of 2000pcm just when I'm at the end of my maternity leave and we will be living on one income. Bills will likely eat up most of my husband's wage.

Two very different situations that we have/will cope(d) with differently. I don't think it's fair to compare the two. I have experienced far more cost and financial worry being a homeowner than I ever did renting, but I do understand where you're coming from on the narrative. It's frustrating how little attention gets paid to renters who pay utterly ridiculous prices and are at the mercy of their landlords. BUT mortgage holders are at the mercy of interest rates. Swings and roundabouts.

Like I said- this graph says it all. It’s so much harder to buy a house now.

What about those on low incomes with no hope of getting the deposit needed or having the multiple to buy?
not everyone can just work two jobs each and save enough for a deposit then be able to get a mortgage.
fwiw I work two jobs and have an average income on my first job then an additional £5k from my second job but live in the south east so now couldn’t afford a house on the multiple alone.
even with a 25% deposit of around £125k for a standard 3bed semi my salary doesn’t cover the multiple to mortgage the rest and even add dh’s in still doesn’t.
we both work long hours and couldn’t work more. A 2 bed house is not that much less than a 3 bed around here but if buying now it just couldn’t be done.

the attitude on Mumsnet of some people that you’re just not working hard enough and get a job that pays more doesn’t work for everyone. Luckily we brought our first house in 1997 before the prices went astronomical. For example we paid £32.5k for a 2 bed semi. Sold in 2001 for £143k. That same house is now on the market for £275k!
I bet the owners wages have not increased by the same percentage.

@BlueberryMuffin817 this view always confuses me. Why is it ok for people who have saved hard for years and recently bought to lose all their equity? Just because they saved a bit quicker doesn’t mean they shoudl lose everything.

But lots of people need more space because they are older & may have dc or planning them. Stamp duty makes moving frequently very expensive. There is huge inter generational inequality, why ignore it?
No, people don't need more space, they want more space. We've already discussed the children. Wait to own before you have them. You don't have to move often, you need to plan your children in accordance with what you can afford at the time.

so only people on well paying graduate wages can have decent, stable, affordable housing? And for all the rest?

I never said that. I was responding to the poster who said her Uni DS would struggle to buy. You can of course aim to be a home owner taking a different route to going to Uni.

Your average renter will have been forced to move multiple times, if you've never experienced being at the whim of LLs and needing deposit/moving costs urgently (using up any savings) you'll never understand why maybe, we don't want to move multiple times for the 'property ladder'
I rented 6 times and was a lodger 4 times before becoming a home owner at 32. Buying was always my aim and the reason why I went back to work FT, applying for promotions and giving my whole missing out on my baby and buying before having another.

Some of the views on here are also very Tory- that anyone can do anything with a bit of hard work. It’s just not true anymore (if it ever was) - the country isn’t structured like that and this idea of ‘get on your bike and get a better job’ is bullshit for a lot of people. That it’s your fault if you can’t buy a house as you have made bad decisions etc.

The real world just isn’t like that. And the country really does need more decent council housing- even George Clark did a brilliant programme about it & compared it to council housing in Europe which is tons better.

And yes, even my head in the clouds idealistic son deserves secure housing
Sorry but I don't agree. If he is doing a degree just because he enjoys what he dies and doesn't bake it a priority to earn and save enough to buy something, he doesn't deserve secure housing. He deserve a head over his head but that's it. Security is a luxury that you have to prioritise. It's not a due.

No, people don't need more space, they want more space. We've already discussed the children. Wait to own before you have them. You don't have to move often, you need to plan your children in accordance with what you can afford at the time.

Have you experienced multiple no fault evictions? Deposits and urgent moving costs wiping out savings (if you have any)? This can happen multiple times, people can be approaching 40 before they have sufficient savings.

At this point of course you don't want a one bed flat so you can keep moving up the property ladder. This has nothing to do with children.

Having a family should never be seen as a stupid or bad thing to do because you rent.

I repeat. Homes as a source of income or retirement plan is immoral.

Would you be eligible for council housing though, @Upthebracket22 even in an ideal world?

I think what most people fail to realise is we can’t tick all the boxes. We can’t open our gates to people seeking refuge from war torn countries, house the most vulnerable and still have housing left for those who work in well paid jobs.

Those people either have to buy or they have to private rent.

@Emeraldgreenjewel probably not - like I say- just some better regulation of private rentals would be fine!!

@BlueberryMuffin817, totally agree with you. I definitely don't think being tenants is a failure at all. I don't judge people who rent. I just react to those who've made choices putting themselves in a difficult position to buy and then moaning that it's not fair.

even with a 25% deposit of around £125k for a standard 3bed semi my salary doesn’t cover the multiple to mortgage the rest and even add dh’s in still doesn’t
But why a 3 or even 2 bedroom though. If only you and your OH, you only need one bedroom which you could afford.

Unless you have children and we are back to lifestyle choice.