To not ask?

[WhateverHappenedToMe]

I've been with my current employer a number of years. About 80% of the staff are in one location which means whenever we have an 'all staff' meeting it's held in that town, which is reasonable. For me, it means about a 4.5 hour journey each way.

Every time one of these meetings is announced I ask (publicly) for accurate meeting times (e.g. when they say it starts at 10:00 does that mean the actual meeting starts then or is that welcome coffee before a 10:30 start, and also what the policy is for booking hotels for the preceding night. Every time I explain that if they want those if us that are travelling to get the cheapest fairs, they need to give us accurate information.

Another meeting has been announced in November. We've been told "the day will run from 10:00 to 16:00" but nothing else. If that's actual meeting times I will have a minimum of a 16-hour day - longer if trains are delayed or I decide to stop for a meal on the way home.

AIBU to think that if they can't be bothered to give all the information, then I can't be bothered to attend?

I'd raise the impact of travel time and ask to be compensated for this either through payment for those hours or toil. I'd also ask if it's essential that you attend all of those meetings or could you attend an agreed allocation of them or could attendances be split between you and someone else who does a similar role? I'd also ask if it's possible for you to be given a budget to stay in a hotel nearby instead and get an itinerary breakdown of the day so you can make it as productive as possible and prepare in advance. I'd also question if there is somewhere more central to everyone including the 20% or if the meeting could rotate location from time to time to accommodate the work life balance of travelling employees. I'd try to go in with a suggestion of a solution if possible and might be worth discussing with the other 20% to see if they have any ideas. Another option could be to do x amounts of meetings on zoom or teams and the rest in person which would probably suit everyone and save the company money overall.

What was the answer previously about hotels?

I'd be pissed off about the lack of consideration and information, but acting on that is another matter.

How is that a 16 hour day?

What additional information do you need?

its 10-4? If you want to stay before or after then ask if you can book a hotel

if travelling isn’t convenient ask them to provide dial in information and you’ll join remotely

YABU to claim they can't be bothered to give you information - what they have said sounds reasonable.
YANBU not to bother travelling such a long way in your own time.

Assuming they reimburse fares, I wouldn’t worry too much about whether you’d get the cheapest fare by planning to arrive at 10 or 10:30. Use the times they’ve stated as your arrival time and justify whatever the fare costs that way if they query it.

Is the long day really a hill to die on, assuming these are not frequent meetings? Can you not just take the travel time as TOIL?

Trains don't arrive with just a couple of minutes for connections, nor do they leave immedately the meeting ends.

If I left home at 05:15 I would arrive at the venue 40 minutes early, but if I caught the next train I would arrive 5-10 minutes late. With a meeting ending at 16:00 and a 17 minute walk to the station I'm not going to catch the 16:15 train, and on the next train, if all connections are made, I'll get home at 20:05.

I think you should go to your manager and make it clear that a 10-4 day means it will cost them xx in trains and/or hotel, and gte it approved ahead of time.

Don;'t worry about peak/off peak travel.
And I think that if it is really a 4.5 hour journey, meaning leaving on a train at 5:30, then yes, a hotel is reasonable. But you can get home fine afterwards.

I've asked these questions four times a year for over ten years. If the organisers haven't learnt to supply the information, perhaps they shouldn't be organising these meetings?

But you said you're going to stay at a hotel the night before, so you wouldn't be leaving at 5am, it's barely longer than an average work day. Or are you seriously saying that for these past meetings your work has expected you to wake up at 3/4am to leave at 5 to get there for 10?

I sympathise. I'm in the minority not being based close to the company office.

I would tend to email the organiser directly, keeping it friendly and ask if they have any more details to help me plan. What time frame is arrivals for the 10am start? What time do they need ME there by? Is lunch provided? Can travel/ hotel be expensed? If it's a client/shmoozy thing then it's usually different to an 'optional' office social thing.

If they are vague, as usually are, and say still early days of planning and will get back to me later. If they are going to pay expenses I won't worry too much. If Im paying then I'll say I'm planning on booking X time train as that's the best available fair - let me know if they want me to hold fire booking, but I don't want to miss the deal. But also if it's 'optional' and I don't fancy the slog of it then I'll say really sorry can't make it this time due to evening commitments I wouldn't be make it back in time for! Let me know if they are setting up a Zoom link for us remote lot!

If I got a message that a work event was being held at a particular location at 10am-4pm then I'd assume I need to be there at 9:55 at the latest and should expect to leave until 4:15pm at the earliest. That's sort of obvious, isn't it? What else do you need to know?

Whether or not they'll pay for accommodation so you don't have to get up in the middle of the night is a separate question and there should just be a set policy on that. If there isn't, suggest Hr draft one.

I tend to sort out whatever travel arrangements I prefer and I let my manager know what I am proposing. In this instance I'd let my manager know that I am staying overnight the evening before so I can make the 10am start and that I'll need to leave the meeting 15 mins early so I can make my train home at 16:15 in order to reach home by a sensible time. Can they agree the spending. IF they say no I ask for dial in details. I work full time from home so if someone wants me in the office (which is 180 miles away) then they need to pay the relevant travel.

It is a LOOONG day to get a 4hr train, do a full day of meetings and then a 4hr train home and personally that is too tiring for me so it's a hotel on one end or I don't go.

They probably expect you to attend the whole day
Even the shit pointless bits.

No, I said I wanted them to state the policy for hotel stays. At present they haven't said whether it's permitted.

What happens if you specifically ask “can I book a hotel for the night before this session?” Yes they should respond to the request for “what’s the policy” but just ask “I plan to do X, is that ok?”

If this has been going on for a DECADE then there is no "at present" at play either. They have either been supplying you with a hotel the night before or they have not. You should know - you've been the one attending them for ten years.

How can you let an entire decade go by without either: getting concrete information down far in advance, actively telling them what your proposed plans are, stating it is too far to get so and so will not be attending, or just skipping it with an excuse each time?

If you have been attending each one of these meetings it means you're getting up at 3/4am and travelling until 10. That's almost an entire day in itself, without having to be switched "on" for the meeting. If that's what you've been doing for ten years, it would be unkind of me to call you a fool.

So, you've asked them the same question 40 times and are yet to receive a response?

I think I would have taken a different approach after about 5 failed responses, not carried on for another 9 1/2 years, quietly seething.
Surely after 39 meetings you must know the schedule.

What do the other staff who need to travel do?

When you said "a number of years" and then read your OP I assumed this was the 2nd year these meetings were happening and you didn't want another incident like the 1st but not the 10th/11th time!

What happened every other time a meeting was scheduled for 10am-4pm in that town?

I'd assume the same applies this time.

In fact, why don't you take the bull by the horns and message your manager to say that as on previous occasions, you'll be travelling the night before and taking TOIL for the period you're travelling home on the day of the meeting. That you'll submit an expense claim as usual. Or whatever arrangements you've made the past 40 times.

Can't you take responsibility for making the decision or use previous experience as a template for what's expected?

What's happened previously?

I'd just put forward whatever works for you in terms ofntime/travel/overnight/expenses and conform that you will attend on that basis.
If they say no say sorry can't come then.