To think my Y8 should be doing more?

[Fiona8121]

Maybe I'm expecting too much. DS is Y8 (was 12 end of June). Am I being unreasonable to expect him to make his lunch for the following day? Get his uniform ready for the following day? Check what homework he has and complete at least 2 days prior to being handed in so not leaving until the night before? Also do you allow your Y8s to keep mobile phones in their bedrooms overnight? Would be grateful for other people's opinions :-)

Homework - it’s his work load and he needs to learn to manage it. I do enquire if he has any / needs help but ultimately it is up to him. He knows the consequences- detection.
Bag has to be packed the night before. Uniform is in place too. I’m not a morning person and I can’t be dealing with any stress thanks.
On school nights no phone. If he is too mouthy no phone either.
Lunch I do but I have the time. If I didn’t then I would tell him to sort the night before too.

Of course, you know your DS best, but I don’t think it’s too much of an ask for him to do his homework on time and get his uniform ready the night before. Have you gone through it with him, and explained why it’s important? Have you talked about study skills and things with him yet, so he knows how to work ‘smart’ (ie efficiently) and so he can get his homework quickly enough to fit in fun and relaxing stuff on his school nights too?

Maybe you could even frame the uniform bit as - he could spend more time in bed (within reason!) if he’s prepped all his uniform stuff the night before?

As for his lunch, do you know what sort of food he likes for lunch? Maybe you could both do a weekly lunch shop together, so he can choose what he likes, and then ask him to prep his lunch each night. Maybe turn into a fun thing for you and him to do each week, so he enjoys it and looks forward to it. (I’m not suggesting he doesn’t already have fun, of course, but all these adminny type tasks can be a bit monotonous and boring for kids, so this might make him more interested in doing them).

My 20 years of experience teaching year 8 boys is that they can be pretty lazy, immature and disorganised. None of these things come naturally to them - unless well trained or particularly conscientious.

I feel passionately about the no phones in rooms thing. I know teenagers literally message ALL night and are exhausted by morning. Most admit to falling asleep but regularly waking up in the night to check phone. I don’t think no phones is unreasonable at all if only to protect their sleep. This is without going into the content they watch at night!

I think you are instilling good habits and routines in your child.

interestingly I went on a course delivered by a guy (expert) on why boys underachieve academically and how we can improve boys achievement. he argues it down to us (as a society) not giving boys enough responsibility at young ages and infantalising. He states that by ten yo we should expect a boy to be able to make a three course meal for the family (amongst other things but that is what I remembered). It was a great course and really eye opening (I’m obviously cherry picking bits for this reply)

All my kids their own pack lunch and lay out their clothes even primary ones - I supervise/check.
Mobiles stay downstairs after 10pm for my high school ones. I
I check homework daily as high school ones a hw dodger. I get them to make a list on the wall (static whiteboard sheet in bedroom) of what's due and when.

They also put away their own washing.

Children at this age can be really disorganised, so it helps to get them into a routine. Every so often they can fall out again, so you remind them 'firmly'.

My daughter will get her homework done, but the room will be a mess, she'll be scurrying around for uniform in the morning etc.

Tonight I sat in the room and pointed out all the things that needed to be put away / tidied, instructured her to get her uniform out and book bag packed - everything ready for us to be out at 550 tomorrow morning. That way I do not have to spend my morning being stressed with her.

The phone was becoming a battle when she thought she was being too restricted compared to her friends, so I slapped a lock time on it, which ended that conversation.

It takes time, but persevere until they get tires of you and buck up their ideas; and remind them when they forget.

@Squidlydoo three course meal at age ten? Wow.

A few times of not having the correct uniform/lunch/homework and they’ll soon be more organised.
My two now know they have to get themselves sorted, I’m already out of the house and at work before they’ve even opened their eyes!
Two years ago my yr 8 DD wouldn’t have even been able to find her school shoes if they were on her own feet but now she has her bag prepared with homework done, she’ll have cooked herself a pasta salad for lunch, and made a coffee for the morning walk.
It all happens with time but with a few incidences of screeching down the phone about missing PE kit or lost pencil case!

As a teacher I agree with @Squidlydoo.

I can't speak from a parents' perspective since my daughters are still babies.

However, my brother (who's now 24) was THE most disorganised child. My mum would remind him about everything from homework to uniform. She did everything she could, he simply wasn't bothered. He even forgot about his GCSE Maths exam that his teacher had to call home to find out where he was (my mum worked v early hours so he would go to school on his own).

Fast forward to now, he achieved AAA in his A-Levels in Maths, Further Maths and Computing, did a Computer Science degree at Loughborough Uni and now works as a regional manager for Amazon.

I wouldn't worry too much about your son especially since he's only in year 8. He'll get the kick up the backside when he needs it.

DD is Y8 and started packed lunches this year on the condition that she makes them herself! DH and I both have pretty full on jobs and I have a long commute, I was not up for another evening chore.

She also sorts out her uniform and homework although we do check on that once or twice a week.

Absolutely no phone in room overnight. The one time I caught her having sneaked it in, it was taken away completely for 48 hours.

Uniform and lunch, yes. Homework 2 days in advance, why? As long as he does it, 2 days in advance seems very odd to impose.

Bit of a mixed bag for me:

To make his lunch for the following day? Maybe if an only child, but for us was easier to just to do all the DC lunches in one go. That way too could keep an eye on what they’re eating.

Get his uniform ready for the following day? Not sure what this means. But yes by 12 should be dressing themselves every morning. I never required they lay out their uniform the night before though. You just get up and put it on? How much prep is needed really?

Check what homework he has and complete at least 2 days prior to being handed in so not leaving until the night before? Not in a million years. Didn’t check on their homework nor require it be done a whole 2 days early! Homework is their responsibility and never micromanaged it for them. Only there if they come to me for help.

allow your Y8s to keep mobile phones in their bedrooms overnight? Yes.

Thanks for your opions. Glad to hear I'm not being unreasonable in my expectations. The 2 days prior to being handed in (homework) is only because twice he's left it until the night before then couldn't find the worksheet to complete the homework (obvs had he not had left it he could have asked his subject teacher for another copy). Glad to hear I'm not being unreasonable especially about the mobile phone.

YANBU to have those expectations and hope he meets them, to basically train him into it. But I wouldn’t expect a 12 year old (boy or girl) to do all of those things, all of the time. There’s bound to be something they forget occasionally, I work in secondary and I think it takes until about end of year 9/beginning of year 10 before most of the students are good at organising themselves. I wouldn’t allow phones (or consoles) in bedrooms overnight though. Mine are all still young but I won’t be allowing it in the future.

I agree with @Squidlydoo though. Boys are given less responsibility than girls and you can clearly see this in most secondary age children. I covered a year 8 food tech lesson recently. The girls were easily able to wash up and most knew how use the washing machine. The boys were lost. Almost all of them were washing up in cold water with no washing up liquid. I asked for a show of hands who washed up at home and there were 2 boys that put their hands up, yet all of the girls did. I think they should bring back home economics lessons, but as ‘life skills’ as so many boys don’t seem to be expected to do the same as girls at home.

A lot of it is getting into routine - I have always had a routine of bags packed, coat and shoes ready at the door and uniform ready the night before so now it's something DD just does automatically.

When she gets home from school the first things she does is take off her shoes and coat at the door so they're ready for the morning then takes her bag to her room and changes out of her uniform and it gets hung on a hook on the back of her door. That way in the morning she just needs a fresh shirt from the wardrobe and everything else is in one spot to throw on, she's not running round the house trying to find her tie or tights when we need to leave in 2 minutes.

I let DD organise her own workload and prioritise the stuff that needs to be in soonest but otherwise I leave her to it and she does some homework every day. She usually does her homework at her desk in her room but sometimes comes and works at my desk in the living room if she wants some company but, regardless of where she works, when she's finished she brings her bag down to put in the hall unit and if it came out of her school bag then it goes back in her school bag (unless it's a work in progress/project that she doesn't need for the following day)

We have hooks for coats and then a 2x3 cube unit at the door with a side each - bags just sit on the top, one cube has baskets for hats/gloves/sunglasses/umbrellas etc; bottom cube is for shoes and then my other cube is used for anything I have to remember to take with me - library books to return, letters to post, things to drop off for other people etc - and DDs is for her extra curricular stuff - her flute and music books; the work books for her extracurricular language class; ballet and tap shoes for her dance classes - ready for the morning. If she needs anything for the following day - dance stuff, music stuff etc - then it's already there, the only things she has to actively remember are her PE and swim bags, but they live in a specific place in her bedroom and are always repacked immediately after the stuff is washed so, again, easy to just grab and go. Because everything has a specific home it's really easy to see if something is missing and I can remind DD "Did you bring your school bag out of your room?" because I can see the gap where it should be with just a quick glance at the unit.

It sounds like a lot and very regimented when it's written down but we don't even think about it, it's just automatic and takes seconds but makes life a million times easier in the mornings.

My DD is in year 8 and doesn't make her own lunch (although she would happily do it if I asked her to), but she does get all her uniform ready and does homework the same day it's set.

I don't think my son will be this organised when he is in secondary school though...

I don't allow mobile phones in bedrooms overnight. They are left to charge in the living room and Google Family Link is set to lock them at 9:30pm. We had some dreadful dramas over the summer holidays and some of DDs friends were up until 5 am (yes, 5am) messaging each other. I think it's absolutely bonkers to let 12 year olds do this.

I have boys in year 7 and year 6.
When we get home they empty their lunch boxes and wash them,
get changed and pack any kit needed for the following day,
give me any letters or forms,
do homework unless we're rushing out to a club.

I generally do the lunches in the morning while they empty the dishwasher and eat breakfast, completely my choice as I don't like them having sandwiches/pasta that's been in the fridge all night because I don't like to eat them. Sometimes yr7 does his own if he's up early.
They do their own on weekends.

I've never really understood the MN laying out of clothes/uniform the night before. It's all in the wardrobe/drawers and they put in on in the morning, it's been this way since they were in nursery at 3.

No phones in bedrooms. It goes on charge in the kitchen in the evening and I switch it off when I go to bed. Only the year 7 has one though and he's not really fussed about using it yet.

I've never really understood the MN laying out of clothes/uniform the night before. It's all in the wardrobe/drawers and they put in on in the morning, it's been this way since they were in nursery at 3.

I don't physically lay DDs stuff out at night but it is all in one place so it's immediately obvious if something is missing, and DD checks it is all there every night. DD has a hook on the back of her door, "reusable" uniform - skirt/jumper/tie - go to that specific place every evening and then in the morning she just gets fresh underwear/socks/shirt from wardrobe/drawers. Every night she just makes a cursory check that they are all there and if anything is missing then she can look for it before bed rather than realising her tie is missing two minutes before she needs to leave the house in the mornings.

If everything was away in drawers/wardrobes then the potential for her to assume that there was a jumper in the drawer would be high but if one jumper was in the bottom of her PE bag with her muddy kit and her other was in the wash (for example) then she wouldn't know this until opening the drawer in the morning, when there's nothing that can be done. Checking in the evening gives time for the one in the wash to be hastily washed/dried overnight.

My kids did uniform from Reception and could have made their lunches from juniors. They ironed a school shirt from year 7.
Homework was their responsibility. I don't know how far in advance it was done but I know that they only got a detention for forgotten homework once or twice each.
They had their phones overnight on Friday and Saturday nights only. Overnight every night after GCSEs.

I've never really understood the MN laying out of clothes/uniform the night before. It's all in the wardrobe/drawers and they put in on in the morning, it's been this way since they were in nursery at 3.
My kids have preferred uniform items (apparently the trousers in a 2 pack from M&S aren't exactly the same 🙄 and I'm not going to run around help looking for it in the morning. Plus ds takes off his toe on walk home from school so it could be in about 5 different places. He would not just put it in the same place every day.

My DS is in year 8. I'm not involved with his homework or getting himself ready for school - I just leave him to get on with it (unless he asks for help). He has school lunches. Phone downstairs overnight.

No phone in the room. I do a pack up. Everything else is up to him.

We're very hot on mobile phones overnight - year 9's iPhone has a lock time of 9pm weekdays and year 11's android phone is managed via the family link app. Currently set to lock at 9.30pm weekdays although this is becoming a bit of a battle. I am standing firm until GCSEs are over though!

I do make packed lunches, I have the time and eldest child is ASD/ADHD and probably wouldn't remember/be bothered to eat at lunch if I didn't. Is also fussy about clothes so these are taken out of the wardrobe the night before, 13 year old sorts her own clothes.

I also have a summer-born y8 child and expect them to do all of the above, although mostly has school dinner rather than packed lunch. No to mobile phones in bedrooms (including older teen), absolutely not. We also have screen time limits set with a password so that they can't use phones after 8pm. A phone is a privilege not a right and if they don't like our rules around phones then they don't get one. This all comes across as rather harsh, but we actually have very loving relationships, just that phones are an issue we take seriously!

My year 8 DS manages his homework himself but I make his lunch. I tend to make all the lunches at once but he could do it if necessary.

No phones overnight is the rule in our house. He's a reader anyway so would possibly ignore his phone but the rule covers his siblings who are not quite so conscientious.

He's very organised with workload, clothes, time management etc

DD (Yr 9) needs A LOT more encouragement & management so I know full well they're all different.

Expectations are fine but don't overlook that some people really struggle to be organised.