Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if caters really ask patients if they're happy to be treated by them if the patient is white and the carer is black?

56 replies

daysayso · 09/10/2022 21:56

Is this a thing? Really? Because someone told me today it was.

I then asked if the carer who is black volunteers to do this or if it is enforced on them by their employer and they didn't know.

Either way is far from acceptable but does this happen?

Can someone involved in caring please clear this up for me?

OP posts:
NicolaSixSix · 09/10/2022 21:58

no, it doesn’t happen

DisappointinglyFlatulent · 09/10/2022 22:01

Of course it doesn't happen. Is this some kind of dog-whistle post? Hmm

MarshaMelrose · 09/10/2022 22:02

Not with the carer company we used, no.

JennyMule · 09/10/2022 22:02

Categorically not. I used to work with adult social services. Many people who rely on care staff to meet their needs used to be appalled that they couldn't specify that they would only have support staff of a specific ethnicity (or more usually couldn't veto having black or Asian carers in their home. Many domiciliary care packages and care home placements broke down because the cared for person was racially abusive.

Dacadactyl · 09/10/2022 22:05

JennyMule · 09/10/2022 22:02

Categorically not. I used to work with adult social services. Many people who rely on care staff to meet their needs used to be appalled that they couldn't specify that they would only have support staff of a specific ethnicity (or more usually couldn't veto having black or Asian carers in their home. Many domiciliary care packages and care home placements broke down because the cared for person was racially abusive.

This is true.

I do however know of times when ethnic minority carers would refuse to go to certain clients because the client was racist. Which is fair enough.

Babdoc · 09/10/2022 22:05

Call me Dr Cynical, but I think I can see exactly where this is going. If you wouldn’t screen out black carers, why would you screen out transgender ones - is that the next post?
If so, the answer is obvious. Because sex is not comparable to race.

Oysterbabe · 09/10/2022 22:05

Absolutely not.

CafeCremeMerci · 09/10/2022 22:09

Yes it does happen. But I had every carer asking if I was OK with them doing my personal care

it actually bugged the crap out of me. I'd rather they'd have just got on with it, that's what they were there for and if I'd said no, what then? I'd have gone without the care I needed, or massively put several other 'clients' & carers out. I also realised it was 'part of their job' so just answered nicely.

when I came out of hospital I needed someone to wash me, every nook & cranny, then dress me. It's humiliating whoever it is, actually the bloke was one of the best. Only one was bloody awful, some were amazing & others were a bit crap.

but I could have said 'no' to any of them 'caring' for me.

PeppaPigIsBacon · 09/10/2022 22:11

I’d expect any carer to ask, regardless of race / sex / anything else.

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 09/10/2022 22:12
Hmm
TooBigForMyBoots · 09/10/2022 22:14

Somebody's been talking bollocks.Hmm

watcherintherye · 09/10/2022 22:14

We approached a care agency about 5 or 6 years ago to organise live-in care for my Mum, who was living with us at the time, while we were on holiday for a fortnight. When the manageress came round to meet Mum and do the paperwork, we were quite taken aback to be shown profiles and pictures of carers to indicate preference and to be asked if Mum minded having a black carer. So it is something which happened relatively recently.

OriginalUsername3 · 09/10/2022 22:14

I think I'd be a bit offended by someone basically asking if I'm racist.

Male doctors ask, particularly young ones I've noticed.

gogohmm · 09/10/2022 22:17

Never heard a career ask but did apologise countless times for the comments made by dgm - it's not that she was racist in the horrible sense but she would comment that they were nice but "black as the ace of spades" so embarrassing! All the carers without exception were lovely, caring saints - they could have been rainbow coloured Martians for all we cared, male, female didn't matter if they could cope with her behaviour (dementia). Think we must have had most nationalities over the 6 years, amazing people

CafeCremeMerci · 09/10/2022 22:17

Just to add...

I was asked by the person doing my 'user agreement' if I would be ok with men doing my care & if I had any other specific requests/issues.

also if I had any cultural/religious requirements.

Frankly, them being happy to wash & dress me was all I required, I wouldn't have GAF if they were green & dressed like Shirley Bassey.

PinkStickleBrick · 09/10/2022 22:18

Omg I hope not. Why would they? Hopefully this isn't a thing. I think every time I've been in hospital I've only be treated by a white British person a few times. You wouldn't treat a Dr that way so why a carer?

EmeraldShamrock1 · 09/10/2022 22:19

No of course not.

Guiltycat · 09/10/2022 22:19

When I worked as a support worker for people with learning disabilities some of us would not be sent to a certain house.

One of the gentlemen there would become aggressive with any black staff. I think he may have been frightened but it was hard to tell as he was practically non verbal.

I always asked if someone was happy for me to give them personal care, and if they said no I would not have asked for a reason but swapped with a colleague they were happy with.

I think it’s important to always strive to give people who haven’t got much agency a choice wherever possible. And I’d like to think that a vulnerable person could feel able to say no to personal care from anyone for any reason.

Mycatsgoldtooth · 09/10/2022 22:22

I did some volunteering in 2020 and we were asked if there were any cultural groups/nationalities we would prefer not too offer support to. The role was quite intense and required long term relationship building. It was in the wake of the George Floyd killing. I assumed it was so at that time people could not support white people, when there was so much trauma around race in the conversation at a lot of charities. It was very strange and I spoke about it a lot with friends after. They all thought it was a good idea. I thought it left the organisation open to the possibility of people feeling it was ok to discriminate.

CafeCremeMerci · 09/10/2022 22:24

watcherintherye · 09/10/2022 22:14

We approached a care agency about 5 or 6 years ago to organise live-in care for my Mum, who was living with us at the time, while we were on holiday for a fortnight. When the manageress came round to meet Mum and do the paperwork, we were quite taken aback to be shown profiles and pictures of carers to indicate preference and to be asked if Mum minded having a black carer. So it is something which happened relatively recently.

@watcherintherye

i think that's great actually. With dementia patients or even just elderly patients, I think it's best to match them up with people who make them feel comfortable & not worried.

My dear, elderly NDN actually chose the Big Black Bloke because he reminded her of her first husband.

if at all possible, why shouldn't people have a choice of who doesn't their intimate care?

PeloFondo · 09/10/2022 22:29

CafeCremeMerci · 09/10/2022 22:17

Just to add...

I was asked by the person doing my 'user agreement' if I would be ok with men doing my care & if I had any other specific requests/issues.

also if I had any cultural/religious requirements.

Frankly, them being happy to wash & dress me was all I required, I wouldn't have GAF if they were green & dressed like Shirley Bassey.

That's what happened when I worked as a carer
Some had preferences for male or female or particular carers. If we worked as a double male/female then we would always do same sex personal care and the other would go cook/clean/sort meds

Beingadiv · 09/10/2022 22:30

I'm not sure what wording was used but I'm an NHS HCA part time and would always talk a patient through what I was going to do and get their consent, so i suppose they'd get the opportunity to say they didn't want me to do the task.

Perhaps it's policy if the home/ ward has had experience of people making unpleasant comments to the carers. This way at least they're given the chance to explicitly say 'no' to someone for whatever reason rather than that come out as abuse towards the carer trying to do their job. If it's vulnerable people then I suppose they can't really be refused care, not like a patient of sound mind behaving inappropriately at a GP or dentist's surgery.

Soontobe60 · 09/10/2022 22:31

When my MIL was in an assessment unit following discharge from hospital after a stroke, she complained about a particular Black HCP coming to shower her. The manager of the unit phoned my DH up to tell him that she had been racist. What she was actually complaining about was the fact that the HCP was male. There were other male HCPs there, but this was the only Black male, and up to that point she had only been supported by female HCPs, several of whom were also Black. The manager was more surprised that she didn’t want a male showering her!

melj1213 · 09/10/2022 22:32

Surely every carer should ask the people in their care if they are happy for them to do something before they do it?

Dignity in treatment and explicit consent are both massively important parts of patient care - everyone has a right to say "I don't want you to do X/Y/Z" rather than having "care" forced upon them if they do not want it.

Whether a black carer should ask a patient whether they want them to care for them purely because of the carer's skin colour is a different matter, as the carer should not be asking that question to the patient unless there is context where it is relevent.

So, for example, both my maternal and paternal great uncles had dementia and needed personal care. One served in WWII and was held in a Japanese POW camp where he suffered terrible treatment during his internment. When my Great uncles dementia was at its worst, the care company had to stop any of their Asian carers from doing his care as he would confuse them for the Japanese guards from the POW camp and it would cause massive distress to him, especially as they had to physically handle him as part of the personal care.

He lashed out at those carers on more than one occasion before they realised but as his dementia was so advanced he couldn't explain the issue and he caused physical injury to them as well as physical and mental injury to himself. Once they realised that the Asian carers were triggering traumatic memories, they immediately stopped sending any Asian carers to him in order to keep both him and the carer's safe due to the situation.

My other great uncle did not have those experiences and therefore the colour of their carer's skin was irrelevant as it wasn't a safety/consent issue, so asking them "Are you happy with a black carer?" would be unnecessary and uncomfortable for everyone as it would be highlighting the carers race and making it a "reason" for refused care, which is discrimination.

AloysiusBear · 09/10/2022 22:32

We had to be careful with my grandparent. In old age with dementia he reverted to using terms that were common in his u