Childhood immunisations

@Lilgamesh2 - no but I am sure if it was because of medical advice the OP would have put that pertinent point in theIr post and I can’t think of any other good reason not to vaccinate.

"As soon as vaccination rates drop even a small amount they pop up again. Measles does this commonly in pockets with lower vaccination rates, and London is currently having a polio scare."

The London "polio scare" is because of a faulty polio vaccine which is responsible for distributing the virus.

There's a lot of reactionary nonsense in this thread which I think is indicative of why it's so hard to get through to 'anti vaxxers'. OP if you want to get through to your friend please do your research so you can have a useful conversation. There is a tendency for people to go into their 'camps' on this topic and be unwilling or unable to hear the other side, which is completely unhelpful in any educational conversation.

She doesn't know either.

At least that's how I interpreted her first post. It sounds like they haven't really discussed it.

@Lilgamesh2 It’s not a faulty vaccine. It’s a version of the vaccine still used in some countries which uses a live version of the polio virus which can cause polio to be passed to people who haven’t been fully vaccinated. The problem is areas of London have low take up of a polio vaccine, hence a “polio scare”. It’s not reactionary nonsense.

I once watched a documentary about flat earthers. In it they interviewed scientists and asked why they didn’t do more to help educate these people. One scientist said these people aren’t coming from a place of logic, there is nothing I can say which will cut across that. Same with people who have been suckered into anti-vaxx thinking, it’s not logical. Logic reasoning won’t help here.

I also don’t think it’s balanced to “listen to both sides” as it’s not a balanced situation where 50% of qualified people think x and 50% think Y. It’s more of a case of 99.99% of qualified individuals think you should vaccinate and a load of people without any scientific training and 0.01% of renegade scientists believe you shouldn’t vaccinate. Why should they be given equal airtime?

@ChilliBandit so it's not a faulty vaccine, it's just a vaccine that deliberately uses a live version that spreads polio to otherwise healthy people?

Jesus, you're going to make ME anti vaxs at this rate!

I would ask her what type of flowers she wants putting on her child's grave when they die from something completely preventable.
In all seriousness I'd end the friendship immediately and warn every other parent to keep away from her & her child

I don't think I'd say anything as people like that will not change their minds. I would however end the friendship. Someone who will willingly endanger a child's life is not someone I can be friends with.

I had a friend like this who would start quoting stuff at me.
I ended up saying look it's your choice not to seek vaccines for yourself but personally there is no chance I am risking my baby ending up on life support, disabled or worse which is a very real reality for the illnesses they provide vaccines for especially now they have meningitis jab. Your job as a parent is to care for love and protect. If you know there is a very real risk your not only not protecting your actively ignoring something which long term prevents the potential death of your child.

She went ballistic at me we stopped talking.........found out through mutual friend she got her child vaccinated a few months later.

Um because she is willingly putting her childrens lives at risk! Why would anyone want a friend like that?

Oh ffs. Lots of vaccines use some sort of live version of the virus to produce an immune response. That’s how vaccines started with cowpox/smallpox. It takes a couple of weeks for your system to process it. Less vaccines use this method now as technology moves on but some countries who can’t afford the newer vaccines still rely on these older vaccines. As long as you aren’t shitting on your hands and not washing them for a couple of weeks after vaccination, you aren’t a risk to others. They were using precautionary methods in London because who wants dead or paralysed children which is otherwise avoidable. Perhaps read up about it before you post such inflationary comments online.

The stupid thing is, let's say they end up in ICU with measles. What's she going to do then, say oh no, no drugs or injections? You would be begging for them

There are not two “sides” where childhood vaccinations are concerned. Barring medical exemptions, vaccination is the right thing to do. Not vaccinating is the wrong thing to do.

One thing that you could say to your friend is that the government wouldn’t spend such a considerable amount of money on childhood vaccines for no good reason. This government has cut everything else to the bone, after all!

@ChilliBandit lol sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either it's safe - in which case you were wrong to raise the polio scare as an example of the terrors of what happens if people aren't vaccinated - or it's not, in which case just accept that it's not a safe vaccine "ffs".

Btw - no need to be so condescending. I have read up on the polio situation and I'm fully aware that live viruses are often used. Im also aware that the vaccine in this instance came from Africa where the standards are worse. Nice of you to assume you are the only one who can read tho.

Read the link embedded in this. www.ifa.org.au/lightforriley

I have no idea what your point is now. I am glad you have read about it though. Just an FYI, it’s nothing to do with standards. The UK used the live vaccine (anyone who remembers having the polio vaccine on a sugar cube had the live version). A lot of developing countries just can’t afford the newer version. Nothing to do with standards. I am sure they’d love to use the newer version if they could.

Are you specifically talking about meningitis?

You see, this really annoys me. You cannot prevent against it 100%. There are various strains. Also, just because your child has had the vaccination does not mean they won't get it. The danger is that people then think, oh it won't be that they're vaccinated against it.

I even had the hospital tell me my then 1 yr old couldn't possibly have whooping cough as he'd been vaccinated - as such, they didn't treat him. Hence it got really bad before someone with some bloody common sense stepped in. He did have it.

We don't routinely vaccinate against chickenpox (yes, I"m aware you can get it privately) - if you went to America you'd be treated like a pariah over there for not vaccinating against that. Chickenpox can be just as deadly as measles. In reality, both are normally mild childhood diseases.

It sounds OP like you don't really want to be friends with this lady. So do her (and you) a favour and step back.

There are literally thousands of unvaccinated adults merrily walking around and yet you're oblivious to this. Seriously. Save your anger.

There are literally thousands of unvaccinated adults merrily walking around.

Yes I am one. There was no measles vaccine when I was a child. That's why I am deaf and wear hearing aids because even a mild case of measles can leave lifelong problems.

Their choice entirely. An unfortunate, I'll advised choice but theirs to make. Likelihood of their child suffering harm is actually very small at the moment, but chances of others following suit and not having a dominant base of vaccinated children puts others at greater risk.
Unfortunately I think fewer will vaccinate the further we are from seeing children die or swverely disabled from entirely preventable diseases. Few doctors nowadays have seen diphtheria or polio. Not many have seen measles or rubella damaged babies. Chicken pox encephalitis isnt nice but most people won't ever see them so remain confident that Chicken pox is mild.
Still not your place to say though. She won't listen and will just feel backed into a corner. We should probably make moat vaccines mandatory but that's a long way off yet. Meantime leave to the involved professionals.