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Original poster

Am I mad to consider accepting a promotion without a pay rise?

120 replies

CadburyCrunchy · 06/10/2022 21:15

Position has become available due to various redundancies (previous manager had been there years and was on a lot more money). I've subsequently been offered the job to manage a team of 11 but the condition / clause is to agree to stay on my current salary for at least a year due to budget restrictions and 'cost saving' strategies...

After a year there may be a pay rise (no guarantee) but no where near that of previous person's salary. The advantage would be I'd get experience in the role so could go elsewhere with that and go up the career ladder but in the meantime I'd have all the extra responsibility and stress without any extra cash in my pocket!

Are they taking the complete piss?

OP posts:
FloydPepper · 07/10/2022 08:22

Splutteramo · 07/10/2022 07:17

Taking the absolute PISS! What would a bloke do? Would your boss even ASK a man to do this and expect him to accept
uts a no, you’d be a fool to do this - who else are they going to get?
can they honestly recruit from outside the company for this role on your current salary?
you’ll look like a mug, you’re being treated like a mug, they’ll think you’re a mug.
If this is what the future looks like there, you might want to think about leaving.

IF you want the promotion go back and tell them what you want ££ to take it on.

I’m a man. I’m VE been asked this. Lots of men have

its a bad employer thing, not a sexism thing

WTAFSomedays · 07/10/2022 08:23

OP - just to reframe this, what is the market rate for this job?

PinkPencilCase · 07/10/2022 08:46

It's depressing how many people say they would consider or accept this offer. You'll never get the pay rise OP, they're clearly out to rinse you for whatever they can until you leave.

TheStoop · 07/10/2022 08:48

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Metabigot · 07/10/2022 08:58

SnoozyLucy7 · 07/10/2022 06:31

You would be managing 11 extra people! That comes with so much extra work, plus all the extra work on top of that, for no extra pay? That is completely mad! It’s taking the piss. I am all for getting experience, that will put you in good stead for the future, but it should be about working to live and not living work!

How would HR even allow something like this? Your managers are taking advantage of you, dangling the carrot of “experience” that you will be gaining but which will end up making you work like a donkey.

What makes you think HR are in charge??

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 07/10/2022 09:10

Don’t do it unless you need the job title and are looking to leave.

there will be NO payrise in a year. None. Because you e agreed to do the job for a lower number.

They have the money. They are already paying it to the incumbent.

if you really want the title and experience, you need fixed (contractual, written and signed) agreement as to when and by how much pay will increase. And you need to hold them to it.

Don’t be a mug. You are selling them your time and skills and you need to put your business head on. You’re not a charity. ‘Experience’ doesn’t pay the bills.

pinkpotatoez · 07/10/2022 09:18

No way. 11 is a lot to line manage, my previous manager went off sick for managing 10

Tobaiass22 · 07/10/2022 20:12

Following I am in a similar situation and have seen such great advice on here😊

twoshedsjackson · 07/10/2022 20:26

Many years ago, an unscrupulous headteacher tried that one on with me, or similar; "You're doing great things, and we'd love to promote you, but the budget won't take it" and I replied that I understood his dilemma completely, but would consider a parallel move to another school, if upward wasn't possible, to broaden experience.
I took an afternoon's unpaid leave to go and look round another likely post, and asked if I could give his name as a referee.
Amazingly, the budget was sorted out and I moved up a grade. (I know the system is different now).
One of my relatives had this stunt pulled on her; the head assumed that she wouldn't want to leave, and offered the promotion too late, by which time she had landed a post at a higher salary than his. She was young, and not long married, and he wrongly assumed that she would be less ambitious because of this.
Your employer also needs to be reminded that, if you leave, replacing you will not be without expense.
You know your worth, and so should he!

FirstAvenue · 07/10/2022 22:22

I think you need to start job-hunting. Being asked to manage a team of 11 is a significant promotion, and will require very different skills. If the company are not prepared to offer you an appropriate pay-rise at this key- moment in your career, then frankly they do not deserve your services.

Original poster
CadburyCrunchy · 08/10/2022 00:59

Hello you lovely people of MN!

I've finally got some time to catch up on this thread after a very busy day! Thank you all for taking the time to reply and for all the brilliant advice... it's very much appreciated and has given me lots of food for thought...

Having carefully read all of your replies, I can now think more clearly about this 'no salary increase' job proposition. I was told today that I need the make my decision by next Friday, as otherwise the position will be offered to someone else in my department who is actually less experienced and basically more junior to me but of course they'd 'love' for me to take the role!

I need start some sort of negotiations on Monday don't I? Should I put my proposal of salary expectation (either now or in 12 months time) in writing to them? I looked at several agencies today and the going rate for that particular line manager job is approx 20-25k more than what I'm earning! Even if I asked for an extra 10k they'd still be getting a bargain and making a huge saving in terms of a cost cutting strategy...

OP posts:
MrsRhodes · 08/10/2022 01:03

Iwanttoholdyourham · 06/10/2022 21:25

I'd take it, and immediately start interviewing elsewhere for a role of the same higher level (and more pay). Sometimes it's easier to get a title if you already have the title...

If they're struggling with cost-saving measures, your future at that company is probably limited anyway, so I'd be looking at strategies to leave on my terms. This would help with leaving.

This is the way I would do it to. That experience/title will be useful moving forward imo.

PrincessButtercupToo · 08/10/2022 01:10

I’ve never been asked to do this, but DH was. When he went from “Director” to “Managing Director” he took a £5,000 pay cut, which annoyed him, but he knew that it was the cost of entry to sit at the top table of his bank.

echt · 08/10/2022 02:56

I was told today that I need the make my decision by next Friday, as otherwise the position will be offered to someone else in my department who is actually less experienced and basically more junior to me but of course they'd 'love' for me to take the role!

Of course they want you, just not enough to pay you for your work. And now the not-so subtle threat of working for someone less experienced. They are showing what tossers they are by this very tactic. I would not engage with that aspect, just go back with your wage bargaining offer. If you are feeling like complete arse, don't get back to them until Friday. Grin

They do sound so awful, looking for new job might be better,

WTAFSomedays · 08/10/2022 07:45

Yes OP, you negotiate and do it like a pro:

  • 1. like I said is know your number
  • 2. be willing to walk away
  • 3. DO NOT try to justify it
  • 4. get comfortable with silence

How you do it is up to you ie. you can talk about market rate, how that would retain you etc. Be prepared to be silent. If they say “well we can’t do X”, leave a pause and wait for them to talk. Then ask open questions like “what can you do”. Don’t just think salary: health care, holiday, pension contribution. Some of these are v little at cost to the employer. Every agreement in writing including increments in 6 months etc. and if dependent on performance you nail down the criteria.

If it’s genuinely nothing or too low you have to be prepared to walk away. “Thank you for the opportunity. Sorry we were unable to reach an agreement.”

When people negotiate like this with me, I’m impressed and want them on the team more.

What training and mentoring are you getting as well?

GL 👊

LannieDuck · 08/10/2022 08:25

I did something similar to this - took a secondment into a team lead role (no pay increase because it was a secondment). Stayed a year, then got a job of the same grade elsewhere in the organisation for £20k more.

I would do it for 6 mths to get it on your CV, then start applying to the other jobs that you're looking at for salary comparisons :)

KimberleyClark · 08/10/2022 08:28

No they would be exploiting you.

daisychain01 · 08/10/2022 08:55

Do some research into the equivalent remuneration externally, for at least 2 companies for comparison, then take that into your negotiations.

Having tangible evidence of being underpaid, especially if you're a woman and your predecessor was a man (implication: direct discrimination) will help change their mind.

Princessglittery · 08/10/2022 08:59

@CadburyCrunchy was the previous male manager on the higher salary made redundant? If so, they are on dodgy ground “For a redundancy to be genuine, you must demonstrate that the employee’s job will no longer exist.”

I assume they have slightly changed the role to get around redundancy rules. As pp have said managing people is not easy but the experience is invaluable.

Knowing what they are proposing is maybe unlawful and potentially discriminatory gives you leverage in negotiations. I agree try to negotiate a pay rise with the intention to do the job for 12 months then start applying for management jobs elsewhere.

daisychain01 · 08/10/2022 08:59

no pay increase because it was a secondment

a secondment does not necessarily mean no pay increase. You were exploited the same way they are trying to exploit the OP.

Know your worth- next time say you expect an "acting up" increment.

Magenta82 · 08/10/2022 09:03

They are taking the piss, but I would take it and get the experience and then apply for the other jobs that pay £20k more.

Zofloraeverywhere · 08/10/2022 10:03

Do some research into what salary you could expect with a similar sized company in a comparable role. It’s probably also worth speaking to an agency as they will always be keen to help you find another job! Use this knowledge as part of your negotiation.

DO NOT accept the new job with no pay rise or any other benefit to you.

Coffeetree · 08/10/2022 11:56

Absolutely don't take it.

MadeForThis · 08/10/2022 12:15

Take it for the job title and experience. Plan to leave asap.

GlasgowGal82 · 08/10/2022 12:39

Yes they are taking the piss!

I took a sideway step in my organisation last year. On paper it's a different job with the same level of responsibility and I saw it as an opportunity to expand my skills to make me more employable. However I've realised that the role actually has a lot more additional responsibility, on top of the extra learning I've had to do because I've not got 15 years experience in this area. There's no scope for a raise now so I wish I'd negotiated it at the outset.