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AIBU?

Men feel threatened by womens equality. AIBU to feel concerned about mens attitute?

22 replies

purpleboy · 03/10/2022 15:34

apple.news/AgTGWd--3Q4-CEEWK7L37Tg

This new story has filed me with dread, and supports the suggested rise of incels.

With 2 DDs I fear for their future, if this is how some man view them.

OP posts:
purpleboy · 03/10/2022 15:36

"The survey, conducted across 27 different countries, discovered that its participants aged between 18 and 29 genuinely – and terrifyingly – believed that women were hurting their chances of career progression, a livelihood, and a stable life.
It found that, as opposed to older men, those under 30 ‘most often’ agree with the statement that promoting women’s and girl’s rights has gone too far because it threatens men’s and boys’ opportunities."

Direct quote, who is promoting this view?

OP posts:
Liebig · 03/10/2022 15:40

There are only so many jobs. Women entering the workforce in the 20th century changed a dynamic that, like with globalisation and cheap foreign workers, made the labour market that much more precarious. I can see how that would filter down to produce this mindset.

TealTeacup · 03/10/2022 15:46

This is why feminism needs to stay a movement for progressing the rights and opportunities for women only. Not to promote "equality" amongst the sexes, because that's clearly not what men want, and what men have advocated against for centuries.

Men do not want and will never accept equality.

FarmerRefuted · 03/10/2022 15:47

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression..."

vivainsomnia · 03/10/2022 15:48

They are entitled to their views and feelings just as feminists are.

AdamRyan · 03/10/2022 15:49

Liebig · 03/10/2022 15:40

There are only so many jobs. Women entering the workforce in the 20th century changed a dynamic that, like with globalisation and cheap foreign workers, made the labour market that much more precarious. I can see how that would filter down to produce this mindset.

If you believe the first statement, maybe the second is true.
But the first statement isn't true. I have a job now that didn't exist when I was 20.

I hate that we look for reasons why it's reasonable for men to be threatened than women. It isn't reasonable, its scary some men feel like this and even more scary they can find each other and encourage each other to be rapists and terrorists.

Pineappleflowers · 03/10/2022 15:50

It’s in part a consequence of internet echo chambers where lonely losers get radicalised into extremist psychopaths. I remember the days of no internet and there was so much less extremism, so much more debate between holders of different views. Now, a potential terrorist/paedophile/incel/fanatic can just go online, google a few things and be welcomed aboard by friendly weirdos who’ll brainwash him then encourage him down a dark path and the police will probably never know, or do nothing if they do.

The article talks about “current rate of progress” but we aren’t progressing at all, we’re going backwards at lightspeed in terms of basic respect for women in the West.

Remember history, this happens over and over again. In China they broke the feet of baby girls to make them more attractive to men. In Africa some men still mutilate the genitals of young girls to make sure they won’t enjoy sex as adults. In medieval Europe intelligent women were burned alive or beaten. In Iran a woman just got beaten to death for not wearing a headscarf in the exact same way a passing man thought she should. The colleagues of Sarah Everard’s murderer fondly nicknamed him the rapist and in Britain crimes against against women aren’t legally capable of being hate crime, unlike crimes againat ethic groups / trans folks etc.

I do fear for our daughters, yes. Cuvlised treatment of women isn’t a norm, historically speaking.

Totalityloss · 03/10/2022 15:52

Liebig · 03/10/2022 15:40

There are only so many jobs. Women entering the workforce in the 20th century changed a dynamic that, like with globalisation and cheap foreign workers, made the labour market that much more precarious. I can see how that would filter down to produce this mindset.

Well, it just shows that women's equality, in terms of their status as equal human beings, was never won. Because those young men clearly regard those jobs as 'theirs'. That women are 'taking' from them.

mamabear715 · 03/10/2022 15:56

Meh.. it's just an article.. journalists have to get paid.

TheMoops · 03/10/2022 16:00

Well, it just shows that women's equality, in terms of their status as equal human beings, was never won. Because those young men clearly regard those jobs as 'theirs'. That women are 'taking' from them.

And that's the crux of it really.
They're angry because they feel women are talking something from them. It's the same way of thinking when people are outraged by universities making contextual offers.... although clearly not as dangerous as the former.

Mumoblue · 03/10/2022 16:03

That’s gross, and very disheartening. As a mum to a son, I don’t want him growing up and buying into any of this bollocks.

Zilla1 · 03/10/2022 16:04

There are not 'only so many jobs', there is not a lump of labour for which workers need to fight.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 03/10/2022 16:21

There are only so many jobs. Women entering the workforce in the 20th century changed a dynamic that, like with globalisation and cheap foreign workers, made the labour market that much more precarious. I can see how that would filter down to produce this mindset.

But surely, if a whole load of women who were previously staying at home and doing 'traditional' jobs like looking after children and domestic tasks all day then moved into the wider employment market, that must have created more jobs to replace what they previously did; and so much of it was a rearrangement of existing jobs rather than simply more people doing the same limited number?

Childminders, nannies, nursery workers, domestic cleaners, tailors/seamstresses etc. etc. are now jobs with far more widespread opportunities for many more people than they would ever have been when (theoretically) half the adult population was staying at home and doing them all for themselves. Not to mention restaurants, cafes, sandwich shops etc. that would have seen far less custom when people (women) were preparing and cooking all of the family meals themselves at home.

I can see how globalisation - and the possibility to the wealthy world to exploit workers for low-pay in poor countries - must have had a big impact, though.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 03/10/2022 16:28

promoting women’s and girl’s rights has gone too far because it threatens men’s and boys’ opportunities.

I clicked on the link, but came back out as there were far too many tracking cookies to opt out of; but how did it ever come to a point where women's and girls' rights only come into force once men and boys have had all of the rights that they could possibly want first?

Surely, if there are supposedly too many people chasing too few jobs, it's equally true to say that men's and boys' rights have gone too far, as they're now threatening women's and girls' opportunities?

Lunar270 · 03/10/2022 16:58

AdamRyan · 03/10/2022 15:49

If you believe the first statement, maybe the second is true.
But the first statement isn't true. I have a job now that didn't exist when I was 20.

I hate that we look for reasons why it's reasonable for men to be threatened than women. It isn't reasonable, its scary some men feel like this and even more scary they can find each other and encourage each other to be rapists and terrorists.

I don't think he/she was giving a reason, just that it's an easy leap to make if you're a misogynist.

Thepeopleversuswork · 03/10/2022 17:10

FarmerRefuted · 03/10/2022 15:47

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression..."

This, basically.

FrippEnos · 03/10/2022 17:47

As with all of these surveys, I would love to know what the questions were.
It puts me in mind of the survey that came back with most men at university would rape a woman.

Then when the questions were looked at, it didn't matter how they answered as any response could be read in a negative light.

DuckBilledFattypus · 03/10/2022 17:57

Liebig · 03/10/2022 15:40

There are only so many jobs. Women entering the workforce in the 20th century changed a dynamic that, like with globalisation and cheap foreign workers, made the labour market that much more precarious. I can see how that would filter down to produce this mindset.

I think this is true.

Liebig · 03/10/2022 18:46

AdamRyan · 03/10/2022 15:49

If you believe the first statement, maybe the second is true.
But the first statement isn't true. I have a job now that didn't exist when I was 20.

I hate that we look for reasons why it's reasonable for men to be threatened than women. It isn't reasonable, its scary some men feel like this and even more scary they can find each other and encourage each other to be rapists and terrorists.

A lot of jobs formed in the last fifty years are literally bullshit, though. This is a trend that has only accelerated as the globalised Professional Managerial Class proliferate.

On the other end of the spectrum, women were doing jobs that were not considered as economic activity such as child rearing, caring, cleaning etc. These have now been brought in and monetised, though we still have people today who do things like full time caring for sick relatives who are being neglected for providing a necessary service.

Whether the participants of this survey believe in what I typed above or not is probably academic. There are arguments to be made for both sides, though overall women entering the workforce allowing for better equality and economic growth, though so does allowing high immigration which also has more nuances critiques worth looking into.

It is more than likely a case of finding a reason to justify an ideology.

But, as I said before, there are only a finite number of roles in the workplace, not quite sure where Zilla1 got the impression there isn’t. A rudimentary look at the labour market will show this, and a good chunk of the jobs today are duplication or likely to be automated if invested in.

What would be better is to realise Keynes’ vision of people having a job and the hours worked per worker being far smaller, but still receiving a living wage. Instead, women entered and, as with men, ended up working longer hours, having less time for family and child raising, and needing more income to support what smaller families they did have.

SarahOrford · 04/10/2022 15:08

I’d like to see how this survey was conducted and screen the bias and quality of the survey. I don’t believe young men really feel this way at all. Sounds like a university gender studies group wants to make some waves. SeeMs to have worked 😉

OriginalUsername3 · 04/10/2022 15:12

My DH believes the same. It is , I now know, a huge red flag for abusers. As is, thinking women drivers are shit.

Also, complaining that there too many "foreigners" in an area

1000yellowdaisies · 04/10/2022 15:30

What does your experience and the experience of the women around you tell you? I would be looking at that rather than a study quoted in an online article. Who did this study? There's nothing to say its in any way credible

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