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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Morally obliged to volunteer if retired?

398 replies

notnownorma · 29/09/2022 13:47

Just that, really. If one has no grandchildren to care for, is one morally obliged to give something back to the community if no longer working and in good health? If so, how much time is "enough"?

Inspired by a conversation I recently had with someone thinking of retiring soon.

OP posts:
WallaceinAnderland · 29/09/2022 14:27

What makes you think there is a moral obligation OP?

Alittlelost0 · 29/09/2022 14:27

@Fairyliz is spot on. That 'why should I do it' is going to do society so much harm. There are so many things that have so little in the way of funding but make huge differences to people's lives. It just takes a little bit of time from a lot of people to make it work.

SparrowsNest · 29/09/2022 14:27

I have grandchildren and do after school pick ups 3 days a week. I also volunteer half a day a week. I do not feel obliged to do either and get a lot out of both activities.

catmothertes1 · 29/09/2022 14:28

Not a chance, I was a teacher,I've done my bit.

YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp · 29/09/2022 14:28

Dotjones · 29/09/2022 13:51

It depends on your ability. Generally I'd say there's no obligation provided you don't have any children or grandchildren to care for. If you do, you probably do owe society something, so yes 20 or so hours volunteering would be a good way to pay back your debt.

Not all pensioners are physically or mentally capable of course, but people who retired "young" (eg in 50s or 60s) should pay society back. The problem is pensioners on final salary schemes retiring in their 50s then just enjoying life at our expense, they're the ones who ought to be made to do unpaid work.

Seriously? 😳
I retired at 64, ill health hit very soon afterwards; I was mentally and physically burned out.
I spent my entire working life working full time (short breaks for 2dcs), in the NHS and theThird Sector, frequently 50+ hour weeks.
I think I have contributed plenty to society over 46 years without being made to feel guilty that I don’t volunteer for something now.
As for 20 hours…..

Shinyandnew1 · 29/09/2022 14:30

*If one has no grandchildren to care for, is one morally obliged to give something back to the community if no longer working

None at all. People are welcome to if they want to, though.

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 29/09/2022 14:31

no moral obligation to look after your grandchildren and no moral obligation to volunteer if you're without children/grandchildren.

take a lover instead if you prefer.

CPL593H · 29/09/2022 14:34

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 29/09/2022 14:31

no moral obligation to look after your grandchildren and no moral obligation to volunteer if you're without children/grandchildren.

take a lover instead if you prefer.

This sounds a much better option than @Dotjones chain gang. Grin

KindergartenKop · 29/09/2022 14:34

A lot of things we value are run by volunteers. Like national trust properties and guides/scouts. I think you are obliged to give some time if you have it spare and you are healthy enough.

Seymour5 · 29/09/2022 14:35

I’m older than most posters on MN, I retired in my 60s several years ago. I’m a volunteer in a charity shop. Before that, I was a treasurer in an older persons’ association, and an independent board member for a housing organisation. I started volunteering once my DC left home, even though I was working then.

I volunteer for a specific charity, because the money raised goes to researching a health issue that has really affected DHs family. Having said that, I enjoy it, I feel valued, and as someone else said ‘its better than daytime TV’. I also meet friends, help with grandchildren, go to exercise classes. I even spend time with my DH, who has different interests. Each to her/his own, but as we are not in the wealthy cohort of baby boomers, it gives me an interest that costs nothing but a bit of my time.

HideousKinky · 29/09/2022 14:35

I am 63 and volunteer, but I chose something that I am very interested in and really enjoy. I'd say I like feeling useful, rather than morally obliged to "give back"

TimBoothseyes · 29/09/2022 14:36

By the time I retire at 67 I shall have worked for 50 years, with no break aside from 6 months when DD was born. I have absolutely no desire or obligation (moral or otherwise), to continue to "work" after. retirement.

KimberleyClark · 29/09/2022 14:36

goldfinchonthelawn · 29/09/2022 14:05

No moral obligation at all. You worked, paid taxes, raised children who will also work and pay taxes and contribute to society. Moral duties done. Unless you choose to do voluntary work.

What if you didn’t get the chance to raise children even though you wanted to? Do you still owe society something?

WhatATimeToBeAlive · 29/09/2022 14:36

The problem is pensioners on final salary schemes retiring in their 50s then just enjoying life at our expense, they're the ones who ought to be made to do unpaid work.

It's not at YOUR expense, they've paid into company pension schemes, unless you mean public sector workers on their gold plated pensions where, yes, we have paid for it.

But no, I would rather see people on job seeker benefits doing work in the community while they are looking for paid work.

I work and I volunteer, but that's because I do like giving something back and enjoy it, not because I have to.

mondaytosunday · 29/09/2022 14:42

No. But as I posted on another thread, one key element of living longer is being involved with the community. If you have interests and hobbies (or family) that fill your time great, crack on. But if you also feel you have time on your hands and feel a bit at a loose ends then volunteering can give you a purpose and value.

torquewench · 29/09/2022 14:42

I will have fulfilled my "obligation" to society by paying income tax and NI non stop since 1988.

WhatALoadOfWankyness · 29/09/2022 14:42

I've worked my tits off over the years doing two jobs at once sometimes so now I have fewer responsibilities I'm going enjoy it
I collect for charities a few times a year but I love the freedom to do most things on the spur of the moment
No apologies

MagpiePi · 29/09/2022 14:45

The problem is pensioners on final salary schemes retiring in their 50s then just enjoying life at our expense

Why are you singling out pensioners on final salary schemes? You do know they and their employers paid into the schemes?
Or are you just cross that some people are getting a bigger slice of the 'enjoying life' pie than you?
BTW, I never knew there is a fixed amount of 'enjoying life' that we all have to share Grin

MagpiePi · 29/09/2022 14:46

Haha, cross posted @WhatATimeToBeAlive !!

NothingOriginal8 · 29/09/2022 14:46

I wouldn't say it's an obligation no, but it's a lovely thing to do if you have the time and inclination.
I'm really grateful to the older ladies that run the mum and baby groups at our local churches for example. They made the early months with a newborn much more bearable!

Setindarkness · 29/09/2022 14:47

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 29/09/2022 14:31

no moral obligation to look after your grandchildren and no moral obligation to volunteer if you're without children/grandchildren.

take a lover instead if you prefer.

I believe some people manage all three...😉

maxelly · 29/09/2022 14:47

It's an interesting philosophic question OP, and interesting how many people are saying absolutely not. Many people seem to be answering as if you'd asked 'is there a law that says you have to volunteer in retirement' (obviously the answer being no) so is the logical conclusion that many people think our only moral obligation is to follow the law and so long as no law is being broken you can suit yourself? But then I think that isn't what most people think at all, the majority would agree that it's morally wrong to abandon your children for instance, or to cheat on your partner but these things are not illegal. And I don't think many people would agree that volunteering is actively a bad thing to do or morally 'wrong', in fact most people would say it's a good thing to do, and that in general we should do good things if we can, so why is it so many people instinctively don't agree with the proposition we 'should' volunteer when we have the time and ability to do so?

Personally I think it's a very similar thing to the response you get to threads asking if you should give to charity. For me it's twofold, one is plain and simple defensiveness, people do agree that morally they should volunteer but they don't want to do that themselves because it's more pleasurable to stay at home and watch TV (or keep your money and spend it on yourselves) than to go out and work voluntarily (or give your money away to the poor). I think that's perfectly natural human instinct myself but for the very reason we instinctively feel it's 'wrong' and therefore feel shame and guilt about it, and therefore the usual reply is to elucidate all the reasons why volunteering is difficult or impossible, or not useful.

The second thing is the proximity principle and the theory of crowd inaction. To give an example, if you were out for a walk by your local pond, and saw a small child drowning (no-one else is nearby to help), and you could with very little danger or inconvenience to yourself throw them a lifebelt, near enough everyone would say you of course should try and save the child. In fact it would be morally wrong, repugnant even, to carry on your walk as though nothing was happening and ignore the child's desperate pleas for help. And yet approximately one child dies a minute just from malaria worldwide, a disease that is easily preventable, it's estimated you can save a child's life by donating about £2000 - now £2000 is obviously a lot of money and yet over a lifetime I would say the majority of people could spare that. At £10 p/month you could do it in a bit over 15 years. So in a lifetime you could save 2 or 3 children. Yet very many people don't give any money to charity and don't see it as a moral duty at all. Partially this is because unlike with the child in the pond, these dying children are far away, in unfamiliar places and in cultures unlike our own, we don't know them. So while we abide stringently by moral rules that affect people we know and care about (e.g. not abandoning our children) and fairly well by rules affecting people near us and similar to us (e.g. not shouting abuse at our neighbours, not graffiting or littering our local streets), we find it hard to apply rules to far-away people and things. And also, while with the child in the pond we are the only one that can help, with the child dying of malaria there are millions of people that could theoretically help, so why should we be the ones to do it? So hence why although volunteering in retirement if you have the time and ability is a good thing, most people don't feel it as an 'obligation'.

Personally I think society would be better off if, allowing for differences in ability and other responsibilities of course, there was a much greater expectation on everyone to give both time and money to good causes. I'm not talking about a criminal law or terrible financial consequences if you don't, more along the lines of shared social responsibility. A bit like how we now (mainly) all disapprove of racism and homophobia, and while we won't necessarily put people in prison or socially excommunicate someone for expressing mildly offensive views, we do definitely think less of that person for doing so, and wouldn't elect them to a position of power or hold them up as an example to children. I think people that don't do at least something towards helping the less fortunate, within their scope of abilities of course, could be looked at the same way in the future, maybe?

womaninatightspot · 29/09/2022 14:51

It’s not mandatory but the largely retired volunteers keep keep the local village in bloom. As well as community orchard, community organic growing Co operative, man the Gift shop at the community interest company as well as local charity shop. Obviously it’s a massive contribution and so kind of them.

Marigoldandivy · 29/09/2022 14:51

To the person who said that people retiring in their 50s are living off other people, I wonder how that works. I retired in my 50s and don’t get a state pension till I’m 66. I support myself via a private pension which I paid for!
Once you do retire you quickly see how much is provided to society by volunteers. I enjoy the volunteering that I do, and if I didn’t, I wouldn’t do it. It’s nice to contribute something if you can. Some people do it because they feel morally obliged, others because they benefit personally, most I imagine a bit of both.

Georgeskitchen · 29/09/2022 14:59

Dotjones · 29/09/2022 13:51

It depends on your ability. Generally I'd say there's no obligation provided you don't have any children or grandchildren to care for. If you do, you probably do owe society something, so yes 20 or so hours volunteering would be a good way to pay back your debt.

Not all pensioners are physically or mentally capable of course, but people who retired "young" (eg in 50s or 60s) should pay society back. The problem is pensioners on final salary schemes retiring in their 50s then just enjoying life at our expense, they're the ones who ought to be made to do unpaid work.

At whose expense? Did you pay for their final salary scheme which is highly likely to be taxable? What debt do they owe to society having worked for many years?

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