Older parents and autism/aspergers

[JamSandle]

To think there is a link between older parentage and autism/aspergers, and if so, should we be doing more to educate and prepare parents for this?

Obviously an increasing number of parents are having their children later in life. Should we be doing more to make them aware of potential risk factors for themselves and their children as part of family planning?

No amount of education would matter imo

It's well known that having children later in life isn't the best idea, it's not just potential increased risks around ASD. Older parents are at higher risks for all kinds of issues in their children.

This is why I froze my eggs at 28. And have set aside money for my kids to do the same. I'd much prefer a few grand expense than having to weigh up the likelihood of having to raise a disabled child.

From that link;

”However, genetics is not entirely responsible for a child’s chances of having autism. Environmental factors also contribute to the condition — although researchers disagree on the relative contributions of genes and environment. Some environmental influences, such as exposure to a maternal immune response in the womb or complications during birth, may work with genetic factors to produce autism or intensify its traits.”

Its not claiming to be definitive, even on that summary.

Click through further on the hyperlink of “although researchers disagree….” and the next article descibes two major studies, the competing theories that either 80% or 90% of the cause(s) of autism are genetic in nature, and some highly speculative ideas about what might be relevant “environmental factors” (such as flu).

It then goes on to say that there is clearly not one autism gene, and at least 100 genes closely associated with autism have been identified.

So essentially, it remains to be settled, but the genetics are highly influential, complex and not well understood. Some theories exist about epigenetics, birth experiences being a minor factor, but nobody knows.

Not exactly a slam dunk is it?

The incessant use of the word “risk” is grating, though.

It has not been clinically proven

Maybe read the links you post before misrepresenting them

@NurseInTraining And this is why the definitions of autism need to include functioning labels.

You’re autism may be a difference rather than a disability and that’s great. Good for you for embracing your neurodiveristy.

however it’s really important to recognise how wide the autistic spectrum is and how, often for those who also also have severe learning difficulties, autism means a lifetime of not being able to communicate and not being able to be I independent.

it’s really important that adults with autism who have the skills to advocate for their condition don’t dismiss the experience of those and the experience of parents and carers of those at the other end of the spectrum.

Its also important to remember that exploring factors that may impact the likelyhood of having a child with autism isn’t about eliminating the condition. It’s about understand it more.

I mean, the point about random gene mutations is fair, but that’s true of any gene or genetic condition. If sometimes happens.

@candycaneframe Researchers have known that genes contribute to autism since the 1970s, when a team found that identical twins often share the condition.

Pretty black and white to me.

Still not been clinically proven though

Which was the claim being made

I think this is a really important point. My experience of autism is very different to others. I think the point I was trying to make is that autism isn't the end of the world but for some people autism can be devastating. Thank you @Busygoingblah I think you are raising a really important point and I take your comment on board. You are 100% correct.

And this is why the definitions of autism need to include functioning labels.

They need to be two or more discrete diagnoses, TBH. Lumping the whole spectrum together isn’t helpful. I’m not even sure I believe in this spectrum concept anymore.

You’re autism may be a difference rather than a disability and that’s great. Good for you for embracing your neurodiveristy.

(Bit patronising to PP, there.)

however it’s really important to recognise how wide the autistic spectrum is and how, often for those who also also have severe learning difficulties, autism means a lifetime of not being able to communicate and not being able to be I independent.

Its the severe learning difficulties that are the issue. Let whoever wants to advocate for LFA individuals do the advocacy they want to do.

it’s really important that adults with autism who have the skills to advocate for their condition don’t dismiss the experience of those and the experience of parents and carers of those at the other end of the spectrum.

Absolutely not. You advocate for whoever you want to advocate for. It’s not the responsibility of HFAs to advocate for a completely different group with completely different needs. Completely artificial alliance, that.

Its also important to remember that exploring factors that may impact the likelyhood of having a child with autism isn’t about eliminating the condition. It’s about understand it more.

Oh and that’s hopelessly simplistic, bordering naive too.

One use of further knowledge might well be to help individuals, but inevitably if you determine “factors impacting likelihood of having a child with X”, where X is often seen as problematic, one application of that knowledge will end up being the prevention of more individuals being born with X (or prevention of more individuals with X being born, as you prefer to arrange the words).

It really doesn’t take great powers of analysis to notice that ramification looming. It will have to be addressed.

I have a half brother with autism. Not the 'superpower' sort but the 'severely limiting' sort.

When he was born, his father was 52 and his mum 34. I was 22; neither I nor my older sister have the slightest autistic trace.

Of course I worried about a genetic factor when I was having kids. Reading around the issue, I found plenty of research reports showing that rising paternal age raises autism risk, especially if the mother is considerably younger.

Psychosis risk also rises on the same pattern. My grandfather had 10 healthy kids and then the 11th had a roaring psychosis - born when the father was 60 and the mother 35.

Researchers were suggesting that it's a function of declining sperm quality. Sperm, unlike eggs, is 'made fresh' throughout a man's life, but in such a way that 'copying mistakes' accumulate over time.

These are complex conditions and clearly many factors are at play. But when I was reading those papers I was a little bit pleased that it's the fathers, for a change, who are the 'problem' - there's plenty of jeremiads about women 'waiting too long' to have children, turns out fathers need to watch the clock too.

But why does it need to be addressed?

If available testing should be done to see whether unborn babies are likely to have ASD, just like any other condition that impacts parents lives for the worse in many cases,

Correlation does not mean causation. Quite frankly, undiagnosed autistic parents are probably likely to marry later and thus have kids later...

Because the aspie-positive community will want to address it, and they don’t have much common cause with those who call autism a disorder or who would terminate for a positive prenatal screening.

There will be a debate and a schism, hopefully not an excessively vitriolic one. Certain other disabled groups have already been through this discussion.

Exactly.

They need to be two or more discrete diagnoses, TBH. Lumping the whole spectrum together isn’t helpful. I’m not even sure I believe in this spectrum concept anymore.

Why though? Someone with an LDs lived experience of epilepsy, cerebral palsy, asthma, cancer, ADHD, etc is likely to be different than those without an LD but there's no question they are the same disorder.

Might it be that undiagnosed ND parents are more likely to have babies at an older age, this the link between parents' age and likelihood of autism. It does seem that the more we learn about neuro divergence, the more evidence there is that it's often genetic.

I've just seen someone else has already made me point in a far more succinct and scientific manner 😁

Because the only thing that matters in daily life are needs and presentation. The social model of disability. An individual’s own experience of being autistic. (All experience is lived BTW. If it isn’t “lived”, then it isn’t experience. So that’s an inane tautology).

Lots of autists don’t even consider themselves disordered, but for some reason people like you are hellbent on telling them that firstly, that they’re disordered and, secondly, that they should have fellow feeling for a group of people with learning difficulties that they have next to nothing in common with. It’s an assertion with little real world relevance.

Posts that refer to ‘risk’ and ‘family planning’ when talking about children being born with disabilities or differences are contentious and not helpful. The discussion will inevitably lead to upset and/or comments about terminations and eugenics. Perhaps adding lessons on diversity to the national curriculum would be a better approach so we are all better informed. Rather than waiting til a woman gets pregnant then bombarding her with overwhelming terms such as ‘risks’ and ‘red flags’ to look out for during and after pregnancy.

Please also remember that people who read or comment on a thread about autism are likely to have lived experience. If they are autistic themselves they may also have social and communication difficulties. So if someone then shares their diagnosis with you, they are likely bravely sharing this in the hope you will at least try to understand how difficult this can be.

Going back to the OPs question, there is ‘risk’ with all pregnancies, however, autism is generally considered as being down to a range of genetic factors and not parental age.

It’s a fallacy that only autists with LD’s are low-functioning.

"And once identified, they'll kill us, neuter us, or kill our children in the womb. We need to unite, before this happens. There are more of us than they think."

That's what makes cross cultural studies difficult, people/families don't want to be identified, out of fear. My Nigerian friend won't visit her family in Nigeria because she fears that her son will be killed. There's really interesting articles about autism in Nigeria. I'm autistic, so is my adult DD. I'd picked up that her son was when he was around eighteen months. It was such a terrifying prospect to her that it took his Nursery, at four, insisting on getting him intervention. My friend describes herself as having OCD, she says that family members also have it. I think that they are on the spectrum. Two of her son's half siblings have since been diagnosed. She said that when he was getting recurring chest infections, she'd be encouraged to not get him treatment and let him go. It's still the same in many parts of the world. As well as people being tied to trees/chained in sheds. But they are the families that would probably tell us more about the hereditary/generic link, as well as the older father stats.

"It’s a fallacy that only autistics with LD’s are low-functioning."

Which is who HF/LF isn't necessarily helpful. My DD has S&L issues and is classed as having moderate LD's. But she works full time in a NHS catering role. My friend's little boy is non verbal and needs a lot of support. But he could do the alphabet and spell words at three years old. He has LD's but does some curriculum work three years older than his age. My DD recently went on holiday. Part of the group had never been around people who have LD's and autism, or who had gone to a SEN school (that they know of). They were incredulous at the life my DD leads. It took them a couple of days to not over fuss her. Luckily she finds it funny.

Also I'm high functioning, but the way my Autism presents in regards to friendships, socialising, being comfortable in classrooms/workplaces etc has had a massive negative on my life.

"And this is why the definitions of autism need to include functioning labels."

But so many of my DD's peers from her SEN schools and including her, who would have been put in the box 'LF-MF' have found job roles that suit them. She's 25 now and the SEN provision was much better and we had a bigger range of schools. I don't trust the people in charge today with what they'd do, or what funding etc would be given to those children. My DD is achieving more than the average person in the deprived area that I live in. It's the same for many of her peers. I'd rather support needs identified, than hanging on a label. My DD still needs enough support to qualify for PIP. But as said works full time.