it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

Last time I looked going on a special holiday didn't result in a lifetime of privilege through educational advantage.

Ban private schools. Make everyone go to state school and pretty soon you'd see parents getting much more involved in order to help their children on what will be much more of a flat playing field.

Private education creates societal divisions that never heal.

No, it's that private schools are not genuine charities so they should pay VAT like all other businesses.

It should be repeated frequently how wrong this statement is. Private schools pay VAT on all goods and services which they purchase and on which VAT is due. As they are charities they cannot reclaim the VAT- businesses can reclaim VAT.

I always think okay well could the state system provide for the additional 7% of kids who are in private schools (18% between 16-18) whose parents have already paid for a state school place. I think it’s short sighted to tax private schools

I wouldn’t send my child to private school I’d it was going to eat up all my money. I’d assume most people who do send their children to private school are wealthy enough to afford the fees plus the lifestyle they want.

My Mum was sent to private school for one year as she was severely bullied in the 70s and my Grandparents literally went without their essentials to pay for her to be somewhere safe. They lived in a council house and scraped the fees together. Not everyone who attends private school is super rich. I am personally against private schooling as I believe that all children have the right to the best education not just those who pay for it. Sadly, this isn’t always the case and in some areas the state schools are well below par. We have friends who took their child out of state school as they felt they should give them the ‘best’ and months later took them out of that private school as the school was actually a whole year behind the academic level of the state school their child was in previously. Private isn’t always better. Fact. The tax situation is a tricky one but I would have to say that I agree with the tax being added. For my grandparents it would have made it unaffordable but for 99% of people using these schools it will be affordable just not welcomed. I read once that to send your child to a private school shows a complete lack of faith in them. This always stuck with me and this was another reason we sent our daughter to a state school. We now have more money to spend on energy bills and diesel 🤪

OP, I agree with you, but you are unlikely to find sympathy on mumsnet.

I think private education should be tax exempt because it frees up spaces in the state system, saving the government about £8k per child per year.

In the same way I think people with private health insurance should get a tax discount because they don't use NHS.

My family have both private education and private healthcare, we pay more taxes per year than an average household in 10 years, and still everyone hates us.

We have now moved to Italy and are enjoying expat's tax breaks (only 10% tax instead of 45%) and better and cheaper private education. Perhaps moving could be an option for you if things get more expensive.

Private school fees are governed by what people will pay. So the fact that they've not had to include vat on the bill means they've been able to charge 17% more than they otherwise would have done. So you tell them that they'll need to absorb that into their current prices.

If you've got more than 1 child, you do have to have a very healthy household income, guessing only 5% of the population could afford it. So it's not surprising there won't be a lot of sympathy among general public.

This.

Tedious straw man argument. Education is a massive driver of social equality. Marriage in a registry office isn't.

I both went to and use private schools. I still don't think they should be VAT exempt, or in as widespread use as they are.

I used to make all those arguments to people about saving the state money, and how it's just as bad buying a house in a good catchment area, too, but I think I can acknowledge now that they are pretty weak rationalisations brought out to avoid me admitting that I had had an advantage as a result of my education.

I don't think anyone is awful for using private schools, far from it, but it is absolutely true that they create a sort of escape raft for the well off, and as a result those well off people put much much less pressure on governments to fund good state education. That's even true of the scrimpers and savers, who are clinging on to the escape raft by the tips of their fingers, and who may be escaping very bad schools. It isn't just your child that has a genuine need to escape the really bad stuff about some schools - it's all children, including those whose families have no resources to pay for private education even after scrimping.

It is a really difficult issue, but I think the charitable status isn't appropriate.

Why are pp so bitter and envious of what others have?
That kind if attitude just sucks the life out of you eventually.
Can't people be happy for others' good fortune, rather than trying to drag everyone down?

You don't pay VAT on university fees, why should private schools be any different?

Nobody is suggesting charging VAT on private school fees. They are suggesting charging VAT on goods and services that private schools purchase. Universities have to pay this unless the purchases are exclusively for use in charity-funded research.

Labour should focus on improving the state system- smaller class sizes, better support for SEN, more SEN schools and then after it's achieved that go after private schools.

How many people on here slapping down private schools either paid through the nose to get their kids into state grammars, or paid top dollar for houses in the catchment areas of high-performing state schools?

The only really fair system would be admission to a state school by lottery.

This is where we have found ourselves. Except DSs are in (an excellent) state primary. Secondary schools are unfortunately not well performing, among other issues such as teacher retention. I often read these threads with my cynical hat on, because many people against private schooling do not live in areas like mine.

Rents/mortgages are cheaper, so people who live here with a 'good' wage will go the private route for secondary (many attempt via a bursary) . Or, people with money will just move to a better area and probably wont be judged in the same way as the first group.

Incorrect. Charities can very much be in business. They may then be restricted in distribution etc, but can have both business and non-business activities. The difference is absolutely crucial in VAT terms.

Yep it’s all a bit depressing

Plus atm some people pay twice - fees and taxes but don’t take that space. So then they come back to state sector which is overrun already

And improve teacher retention and pay, and TA pay! Education, Education, Education!!

Same as yours. All those things aren't the preserve of state kids. I know more kids who went to private school who had extra tuition than kids who went to state. Obvious really; it's the private families who can afford it.
It's a tired argument with hitch is always trotted out: 'what about private tuition?'. What about it?

OR they believe that a society should have true social mobility.

I meant paid through the nose for TUTORS to get their kids into grammars

Yes. Where I live a three bed terrace in the catchment for the excellent comprehensive is over £1mil . I couldn't afford this so I live in a cheaper area and send my children to a private school.

glassyspiral · Today 14:30

I both went to and use private schools. I still don't think they should be VAT exempt, or in as widespread use as they are.

The fees are VAT exempt so parents don't pay VAT . The schools are not VAT exempt- they pay VAT on anything they purchase where VAT is due and can't reclaim the VAT.

@Theillustratedmummy

Its not always a luxury. The small private school is the only school able to meet the needs of my dc. I'm not a high earner. I work extra to afford it. Extra 20% is unaffordable. I understand its not the case for most in private school and we are probably an exception.

I am sorry for your situation and happy you found a place that meets your child's needs. But out of interest, what do you think is the position of someone just like you, whose child has similar needs, but who can't afford to pay the fees of your small private school even if they work extra, because their salary simply doesn't cover it (or doesn't cover the cost of specialised childcare they need in order to work extra hours)? Do you think it is fair that your child's needs are met and theirs are not?

That is very cheap but also most people also have more than one child at school age, so 2x or even 3x school fees for many years - this is when it becomes less manageable for the average earner. You are far less less likely to have two in nursery at the same time.

In my opinion, that's why you see so many no sibling kids in private education.