it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

Ideology aside, adding VAT to school fees would probably end up costing the government more money than it brought in, because of the large numbers of pupils who would suddenly need state education.

Imo, some of those who get on their high horse about private education while admitting (boasting?) they earn 150k should think about the fact they have "bought" a good school because they can afford to live in a nice catchment area. Where is the fairness in that?

I live in an area like this. Even so, the schools aren’t entirely composed of the offspring of the gentrifying classes. You really do have to buy your children a place away from the riffraff and yourself a naice parent peer group if that’s what you’re into.

I read the ofsted report of our local state primary and its all quite disappointing. I look at the outcomes from our local staff secondary and they're far from impressive. My partner and I were both very strong academicly and we want our children to love learning. My nieces have hated school and been bored. We can afford the private school up the road which looks fantastic and i know my kids will thrive there. But I must send them to the to the disappointing state schools? How about the state schools get better? It's all rather depressing. Why don't state schools set up groups for advanced children to go at there own pace? The ofsted report for our local state reads as though the maths teaching is just a bit......shit. I guess what we're meant to do is move to the other side of town where the schools are better. FFS. What a stupid country.

I mean,the government effects and decides so much and to you a 20% increase of fees outweighs all the rest?

Or were you not a Labour voter anyway?

The government's other policies will effect your children much, much more than a slight fee increase.

So for those that want to ban private schools, are you against people having the choice of where to send their children to be educated .
Should we ban exotic holidays , or expensive cars? Maybe expensive weddings, everyone could be forced to marry in a registry office. I don't see why anyone thinks it's ok to ban something just because they don't agree with it.

Remind me how Labour's polling has gone since it announced the policy?

Unelectable?

the reality is private education is a luxury so taxed as such . If they need to increase fees in accordance you have the option to pay or put your kids in state schools

@SofiaSoFar
The paying for schooling through tax is a red herring. We all pay for things we don't use. It's not like I get a discount on my taxes for not smoking and therefore not needing COPD treatment. Or that women pay more taxes to pay for maternity services.

Yes, it is a tax benefit in the way of an exemption. We do that with lots of things that are considered "worthy" by society. I do not think private schools ought to be one of those things from an ideology perspective. (1) I don't think they have a value to society generally and (2) they foster social division and hinder social mobility.

It's also a labour policy very likely to be magpies by the tories

So for those that want to ban private schools,

Who is that then ? (Note for the dim: taxing isn't banning. Look at alcohol and tobacco).

If anything, there should be a tax credit to private school parents for the amount it would have cost to educate their child in the state system. Then that could be used to offset the fees + vat.

Agree

Some parents at my local private school commute for an hour to get their children there. I know two children who travel long distances who transferred to our private school from the state system because the children were victims of racism (by both children and staff) at the failing state schools. The children aren’t experiencing this anymore at our school: racism is not accepted here. The parents of those children aren’t rich, they’ve made huge sacrifices to place their children into an environment where they aren’t being taught by racist staff.

But you go on believing whatever you like, happily your opinion is irrelevant to both me and policymakers 🤷‍♀️

Look back in the thread, there's several posts saying they think private schools should be banned.

Does anyone know if private nurseries pay 20% VAT? I wonder what would happen if Labour added these companies to the list. Would parents be able to afford to send their children there and afford to work?
It's a slightly different scenario, but one that could impact a lot more parents.

This!

Its a very ignorant and simplistic view to assume people send their children to private schools have tonnes of money to burn and do so just because they can. Many save, scrape and beg and borrow to pay their children's fees as the mainstream provision is so epically shit for some children. Appropriate levels of staffing, smaller class sizes, more opportunities beyond a one size fits all curriculum is a lifeline to some children.

Its not going to raise any money for state schools, its a political policy not a financial one. First, independent analysis has already shown that the it will displace a large number of pupils into the state system. Government funding for schools is on a per pupil basis and so the funding costs for state schools will increase by more than the VAT raised when the displacement is taken into consideration.

So overall the government will lose money and private schools will become even more elite than before as only the very wealthiest will be able to afford it and things like bursaries etc will likely become scarcer as will other elements of public benefit private schools currently provide (access to facilities provided to state schools and the community etc).

It would make more policy sense just to abolish private schools. This policy makes no economic or political sense.

Although arguably people without children should also have that tax credit right?

Where is this?

Yep this 👆
Lots of state school parents love to get judgey about private education, but they happily buy their own kids a better level of education by buying houses in the best catchment areas. Hypocritical?

Fwiw I do have a ds in private school but have always voted Labour and wouldn’t vote Tory if you begged me.

To ne honest university fees are so enormous and umanageable only the very wealthiest expect to be able to pay them without taking out student loans which are paid back as a percentage of what you earn, IF you earn over a certain threshold, which for more and more graduates is increasingly unlikely. So it's really not comparable. They can't hike the fees 20% without government increasing the loans 20% or the whole edifice collapses.

I mean if the govt are planning to offer everybody loans for private school fees that only have to be paid back when the child they pay for is earning over £25k, then you might have a point, otherwise....

Thank you for reminding me why I vote Labour.

I wish people would consider all the implications before jumping on the bandwagon about this.
Independent schools that are charities cannot make a profit and must demonstrate public benefit.
However, if VAT was added to fees, many of the smaller schools will close. Despite what you may think, many families just about manage to pay the fees and will not be able to afford VAT on top of the ever increasing (linked to inflation) rise in fees. This will have a knock on effect - think of all the teachers, cleaners, maintenance and other support staff that would lose their jobs. Think of the supplies they buy - local businesses will be hurt. Then there are the students - 600,000 children are in private education which saves the taxpayer £3.5billion a year. If you send, say even half, back in to the state system, how will the already stretched sector cope?
The amount private schools save on not paying business rates is around £104m/year. But this is against the £15billion that the recovery commissioner had said is needed for state schools post pandemic.
Then there is VAT recovery. Currently independent schools pay VAT on their expenditure. If they operate as business, they can claim this back.
It's a complex issue, and one that may well end up costing far more than any revenue generated. But people like the idea, thinking they are simply taxing the rich. But it's the far reaching consequences that people are not considering.

Note for the dim -Taxing isn't banning

• I'm asking the people who have said they are in favour of private schools being banned, I do understand taxing isn't banning. But too quick to get your smart arse comment in hey