Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this senior manager was inappropriate?

23 replies

jhgfdsdfghj · 27/09/2022 21:50

I was off work with anxiety and depression, supported by doctor's notes. I am back at work now.

I had a meeting with a senior manager completely out of the blue, and they brought up my absence. They mentioned how my reasonable adjustment (made with the agreement of my manager and HR) affected my ability to progress in my career and do my job, and impacted how things ran in the department, which made me feel like a burden and like I'm not fit for my job anymore. I felt a bit confused too, as the adjustment was made after I handed in my notice and it was how my manager was able to convince me to stay). They implied I was too anxious and quiet, bringing up that I didn't go to drinks with colleagues and that I can be quiet in meetings (I'm trying my hardest to work on this but admit it's a problem, and part of my anxiety). I felt a bit blind sided by it, and felt a bit stunned afterward not really sure how to react, but I feel upset by it.

I've been having regular meetings with HR so feel like if it had come from them I would feel differently

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 27/09/2022 21:54

First things first write down exactly what this senior manager said to the letter and how it made you feel and just as you outline above the various adjustments that had already been made / discussed with HR and your manager. It is inappropriate and you need to keep a diary of all these 'side' chats.

jhgfdsdfghj · 28/09/2022 08:27

I will make a note of what was said, I just feel so hurt by it and feel like I need to just leave and have a fresh start somewhere else

OP posts:
RosesAndHellebores · 28/09/2022 08:33

It may have been hurtful but was it factual. It is pretty difficult to progress a career if there are regular lengthy absences and a lack of engagement with colleagues.

However, the adjustments have been put in place for you to fulfil the responsibilities of your current role and your eyes do need to be open to the fact that similar adjustments may not be possible at a higher grade.

Ultimately your professional and personal happiness is your responsibility so if the job makes you unhappy, move on.

KILM · 28/09/2022 08:40

Sort of feel like a senior manager who might have influence over promotion and progession in your company saying that a reasonable adjustment due to a medical condition will hinder your career progress is walking on very legally dodgy ground, depending on what they said. If your anxiety is severe or long term enough to be classed as a disability its VERY dodgy ground, especially as the discussion took place in a work capacity... but again depends what exactly was said in what context.
When you do make a note of it, be sure not to write only what you've written here, if you can remember the exact wording and what was said either side make sure you get down as much as possible.

jhgfdsdfghj · 28/09/2022 09:46

RosesAndHellebores · 28/09/2022 08:33

It may have been hurtful but was it factual. It is pretty difficult to progress a career if there are regular lengthy absences and a lack of engagement with colleagues.

However, the adjustments have been put in place for you to fulfil the responsibilities of your current role and your eyes do need to be open to the fact that similar adjustments may not be possible at a higher grade.

Ultimately your professional and personal happiness is your responsibility so if the job makes you unhappy, move on.

I do understand this, which is why I posted on AIBU as I feel like there's two sides to this. However, I feel like it's almost insinuating I'll get passed up on promotions because of my disability, which could be seen as a form of discrimination

OP posts:
Jengnr · 28/09/2022 09:52

It’s not ‘could be seen as’. It IS discrimination.

10HailMarys · 28/09/2022 09:52

There may be some adjustments that are reasonable in your current role but which would not be reasonable in a role at a higher level, for example, and yes, I think that could hinder your ability to progress. But your manager should discuss this with you in a much more sensitive way.

I also think if your adjustments mean there are duties or workloads that you're not able to pick up, then yes, it will have an impact on your team - however, that is your manager's problem to deal with, not yours. They should have considered this and made arrangements for cover if necessary when they put the adjustments in place. They made the adjustments on the grounds that they were reasonable, so I think it's on them if they now think they're not.

bringing up that I didn't go to drinks with colleagues

This is a bit of a red flag, in my opinion. Your job should not depend on socialising with colleagues. Insisting that people aren't team players if they don't socialise with colleagues is discriminatory. Lots of people can't go for drinks after work - people with childcare responsibilities, people who can't be in an environment where alcohol is being served (whether that's for religious reasons or because they're a recovering addict) or whatever, people who might have health conditions that mean they need enough rest in the evenings, etc.

The fact that you had this meeting (presumably one to one?) with this manager rather than through part of your regular meetings with HR is also a red flag - it sounds like they've bypassed the correct procedures and might be a bit of a bully, frankly.

jhgfdsdfghj · 28/09/2022 10:40

10HailMarys · 28/09/2022 09:52

There may be some adjustments that are reasonable in your current role but which would not be reasonable in a role at a higher level, for example, and yes, I think that could hinder your ability to progress. But your manager should discuss this with you in a much more sensitive way.

I also think if your adjustments mean there are duties or workloads that you're not able to pick up, then yes, it will have an impact on your team - however, that is your manager's problem to deal with, not yours. They should have considered this and made arrangements for cover if necessary when they put the adjustments in place. They made the adjustments on the grounds that they were reasonable, so I think it's on them if they now think they're not.

bringing up that I didn't go to drinks with colleagues

This is a bit of a red flag, in my opinion. Your job should not depend on socialising with colleagues. Insisting that people aren't team players if they don't socialise with colleagues is discriminatory. Lots of people can't go for drinks after work - people with childcare responsibilities, people who can't be in an environment where alcohol is being served (whether that's for religious reasons or because they're a recovering addict) or whatever, people who might have health conditions that mean they need enough rest in the evenings, etc.

The fact that you had this meeting (presumably one to one?) with this manager rather than through part of your regular meetings with HR is also a red flag - it sounds like they've bypassed the correct procedures and might be a bit of a bully, frankly.

That makes sense. Unfortunately, I think the adjustment will hinder my career progression as it makes up a larger proportion of the senior roles. At the moment, I largely work in the background whereas stepping up would involve representing the company more which is the adjustment I've had made to my role.

OP posts:
Aprilx · 28/09/2022 10:44

jhgfdsdfghj · 28/09/2022 09:46

I do understand this, which is why I posted on AIBU as I feel like there's two sides to this. However, I feel like it's almost insinuating I'll get passed up on promotions because of my disability, which could be seen as a form of discrimination

It was mentioned that you could miss out on promotion opportunities because you don’t engage with colleagues or contribute to meetings. I think most people would find the same. I have no idea what reasonable adjustments you are referring to, but I can imagine what reasonable adjustments would permit you to opt out of things like that whilst continuing to progress.

Merlott · 28/09/2022 10:50

It's not progression if it damages your health. There are other paths to "progression". You don't have to comply with what this manager or your org has laid out for you. You can look elsewhere, diagonally, sideways, career change, different industry or sector.

It sounds horrible OP and completely not OK to take you aside and harass you like that.

IME some (not all but a lot!) of senior staff are power tripping lunatics who feel personally threatened by anyone different to them or who has different values or priorities. Like they sacrificed everything to get where they are and it drives them potty to see anyone taking a different path or prioritising wellbeing.

You don't have to live your life the way others expect.

Adultchildofelderlyparents · 28/09/2022 10:56

10HailMarys · 28/09/2022 09:52

There may be some adjustments that are reasonable in your current role but which would not be reasonable in a role at a higher level, for example, and yes, I think that could hinder your ability to progress. But your manager should discuss this with you in a much more sensitive way.

I also think if your adjustments mean there are duties or workloads that you're not able to pick up, then yes, it will have an impact on your team - however, that is your manager's problem to deal with, not yours. They should have considered this and made arrangements for cover if necessary when they put the adjustments in place. They made the adjustments on the grounds that they were reasonable, so I think it's on them if they now think they're not.

bringing up that I didn't go to drinks with colleagues

This is a bit of a red flag, in my opinion. Your job should not depend on socialising with colleagues. Insisting that people aren't team players if they don't socialise with colleagues is discriminatory. Lots of people can't go for drinks after work - people with childcare responsibilities, people who can't be in an environment where alcohol is being served (whether that's for religious reasons or because they're a recovering addict) or whatever, people who might have health conditions that mean they need enough rest in the evenings, etc.

The fact that you had this meeting (presumably one to one?) with this manager rather than through part of your regular meetings with HR is also a red flag - it sounds like they've bypassed the correct procedures and might be a bit of a bully, frankly.

This post is exactly my response too.
OP, you are being discriminated against. If I have a member of my team on sick leave with anxiety (or anything), I seek to do whatever I can to help them return to work, boost and support them, help them find ways to work successfully that suit their needs. This manager is doing the opposite. Keep an accurate written record of everything. Are you in a union?

MarshaMelrose · 28/09/2022 10:56

I had anxiety and depression. To return to work I had to have adjustments made to my work. Ultimately, they meant that I couldn't fulfil all my duties properly and so I was let go. I could never have had promotion because those adjustments would have stopped me being able to perform at the level required.
I think that whether your personality is a right fit for the job and therefore might affect your promotional prospects is a different issue. I'd be wary of anyone trying to mix the two issues.

WeAreAllLionesses · 28/09/2022 11:02

Don't just write it down, you need a record that involves the other party.

Write down as much of the conversation that you can recall accurately.

Then email that manager saying you want to clarify the conversation you had and that you understood it correctly.

Just a hi xx, thank you for the meeting on xx. I want to make sure I understood our conversation correctly, please can you let me know if there are any changes to the attached. Thank you, Op

user1471457751 · 28/09/2022 11:41

@Adultchildofelderlyparents but not all types of discrimination are illegal and disability is not a blanket get-out clause. It's fine for a manager to point out that the current adjustments would not be reasonable at a higher level and so the OPs promotion options will be limited. Employers are within their right to not employ people who cannot do the job after reasonable adjustments have been accounted for.

No employer would be forced to promote someone who, for example, has as their RA that they don't have to do any presentations but the promoted job is 70% presentations.

Adultchildofelderlyparents · 28/09/2022 12:07

@user1471457751 I wonder whether you understand the definition of discrimination? 🤔
People, including the OP, are protected from discrimination according to the Equality Act 2010.
Had the OP applied for a promotion, or asked for career advice, it might have been appropriate for a senior manager to comment on their ability to take on a higher level role while factoring in some workplace adjustments. But that is not the situation described here.
The OP has just returned to work after a period of sick leave. They have agreed some reasonable workplace adjustments with their direct manager and with HR. If those adjustments mean the job cannot be carried out in the same way as before, or if there is a consequential impact on the rest of the team, then that is for the manager and HR to resolve.
The comment about being able to progress being incompatible with the adjustments are irrelevant until the OP is asking to progress.
The comment about them being anxious is factually correct, given that they have just returned from a period of sick leave due to anxiety, but is was inappropriate to raise it when not in a constructive context. "You appear anxious, what can we do to help with that" would have been better.
The comment about them not joining drinks with colleagues is entirely inappropriate.
The conversation came out of the blue, the comments were uninvited and inappropriate.

jhgfdsdfghj · 28/09/2022 13:15

Adultchildofelderlyparents · 28/09/2022 12:07

@user1471457751 I wonder whether you understand the definition of discrimination? 🤔
People, including the OP, are protected from discrimination according to the Equality Act 2010.
Had the OP applied for a promotion, or asked for career advice, it might have been appropriate for a senior manager to comment on their ability to take on a higher level role while factoring in some workplace adjustments. But that is not the situation described here.
The OP has just returned to work after a period of sick leave. They have agreed some reasonable workplace adjustments with their direct manager and with HR. If those adjustments mean the job cannot be carried out in the same way as before, or if there is a consequential impact on the rest of the team, then that is for the manager and HR to resolve.
The comment about being able to progress being incompatible with the adjustments are irrelevant until the OP is asking to progress.
The comment about them being anxious is factually correct, given that they have just returned from a period of sick leave due to anxiety, but is was inappropriate to raise it when not in a constructive context. "You appear anxious, what can we do to help with that" would have been better.
The comment about them not joining drinks with colleagues is entirely inappropriate.
The conversation came out of the blue, the comments were uninvited and inappropriate.

Thank you, you've really summarised what it is about the meeting that felt wrong.

OP posts:
mewkins · 28/09/2022 13:23

The conversation sounds like the senior manager is trying to make you feel bad so that you resign and they don't have to be bothered with it anymore. A key point is that you may in fact not always need those reasonable adjustments and you general wellbeing may indeed improve so that progress very successfully. The conversations about the future are not actually very helpful right now. Also bullshit to talk about bloody work drinks.

beanphone · 28/09/2022 13:23

I was in this exact situation with my manager when I returned from a depression sickness. I was also totally blindsided

I hope it doesn't end up the same way as me but a few days after that initial conversation I was brought into a further meeting where they had absence reports, timesheets, 'evidence' of things I'd not done
Watch your back and your colleagues x

beanphone · 28/09/2022 13:24

I had to involve my union rep to come to meetings with me I was so fragile that by the end of it I wanted to leave and they offered me a package to go. That was obviously their true intention all along x

BooseysMom · 28/09/2022 13:29

10HailMarys · 28/09/2022 09:52

There may be some adjustments that are reasonable in your current role but which would not be reasonable in a role at a higher level, for example, and yes, I think that could hinder your ability to progress. But your manager should discuss this with you in a much more sensitive way.

I also think if your adjustments mean there are duties or workloads that you're not able to pick up, then yes, it will have an impact on your team - however, that is your manager's problem to deal with, not yours. They should have considered this and made arrangements for cover if necessary when they put the adjustments in place. They made the adjustments on the grounds that they were reasonable, so I think it's on them if they now think they're not.

bringing up that I didn't go to drinks with colleagues

This is a bit of a red flag, in my opinion. Your job should not depend on socialising with colleagues. Insisting that people aren't team players if they don't socialise with colleagues is discriminatory. Lots of people can't go for drinks after work - people with childcare responsibilities, people who can't be in an environment where alcohol is being served (whether that's for religious reasons or because they're a recovering addict) or whatever, people who might have health conditions that mean they need enough rest in the evenings, etc.

The fact that you had this meeting (presumably one to one?) with this manager rather than through part of your regular meetings with HR is also a red flag - it sounds like they've bypassed the correct procedures and might be a bit of a bully, frankly.

Completely agree. It's without doubt bordering on bullying. I have suffered similar in my job. If it doesn't improve, contact a Union if there is one, or look at finding another job. There's little point carrying on somewhere with a manager who Is a bully.
Good luck.

Hakunamatata91 · 28/09/2022 13:31

Hate to say it but agree with PP's who say to watch your back with her. Her comments were inappropriate and it doesn't sound like she is trying to support you.

QuietNeighbour · 28/09/2022 13:35

This is similar to a work situation I was in. Only constructive action was to leave. A few years later in a company with supportive management and colleagues I feel like a new person. Do yourself a huge favour and get out!

Batinahat · 28/09/2022 13:44

I have always found the saying 'if it costs my mental health it's too expensive' really helpful especially when it comes to weighing up work situations

New posts on this thread. Refresh page