To say Ireland has the right idea: Budget 2023

[50percentNamaste50percentGoFuckYourself]

I watched agog at last weeks UK mini budget...an absolute travesty.

Today was Ireland's Budget 2023, which was much more impressive.
Hightlights include:

25% reduction in childcare fees
Extension of free GP care to cover half the country
Free contraception
Large reductions in third level fees (which were already a third of the UK)
Increases in lower tax bands
Increases in all social welfare payments
Double payment of child benefit
Electricity credits of 600€ per household
Reduced tax on fuels and energy costs
Increase rent tax credits
Funding for 10,000 new social homes
Increased third level grants
Removal hospital charges and free contraception extended

It's all concentrated on the cost of living, on making things easier for people on low and average wages, looking after those with less.

It's what a budget in these times should be

I don’t know there is a huge amount of homelessness in Ireland, I’d rather the focus on that. The Celtic Tiger gave growth but it was all smoke and mirrors. The multinationals in Dublin pay no tax but drive up costs by paying ridiculous amounts in terms of salary/housing/schooling for staff not from Ireland. Waiting lists for health treatment in Ireland and the UK are horrendous and getting worse.

I’m not saying the UK budget is not a total fuck up but I don’t think Ireland can be held up as a good example either….

@newtothisDo you pay PRSI? Dentist check up and clean is only €15 if you do.

With private health insurance (part of my benefits at work), the service I get is way superior to what I read here about NHS.
My experience as cancer patient was so much better than my UK online friends.
My parent received the same great quality cancer care with a Medical Card.

While I need to pay for my GP visits, I can get a same day or next day face to face GP appointment. And for regular dental treatment, for which I also pay, probably a week wait before appointment.

My cancer treatment and surgery was fully covered by insurance. Several years later I am still seen yearly by oncology and surgical team.

But on the downside,
the waiting times for specialist services are terrible. But there are more options available to private patients.

Waiting times in A&E are terrible. People waiting on trolleys to be admitted from A&E to a free bed is a big problem.

But once you are admitted to a hospital the quality of care is usually good to excellent.

It would have been advantageous to the UK had they done it while part of the EU. The reason the multinational companies such as Google and Facebook chose Ireland was as an access to the free trade within the EU from an English speaking country with a lucrative corporate tax rate. Trump hated it. The EU hates it. The EU wants a single fiscal policy so that Ireland doesn't get to undercut the rest of Europe. The UK cutting their rates now would not entice multinationals as they are no longer part of the EU.

What genius came up with that policy?

Trump even went as far as to accuse Ireland of stealing American jobs. 😁

I didn't know if it is worth comparing tho.
In the UK you start paying the higher rate of tax at £50k while until yesterday in Ireland you paid 40% at €37k. That is a huge difference and even bringing it to €40k does not compare to the UK.
UK personal allowance (that you pay no tax on is 12.5k) in Ireland our tax credit is €3300 tax free. We have to pay USC since 2011 and that is here to stay and 4% PRSI (NI) Things are much more costly in Ireland than uk so even though wages may seem higher, the money doesn't go as far. We pay for bins €31 monthly for bins, around €550 for property tax, motor tax (my old Subaru Impreza is €450 a year and our newer Astra is €270) so over €800 then insurance of almost 1k for both cars.

Someone mentioned braces upthread, my 9 year old got Invisalign at just under 4K, we don't have separate dental insurance (next on the list) so only getting back a max of €25 from our health insurance and get 20% cashback on the rest. Then there's GP fees, paying for medicines etc. DH spent almost 12 hours in a trolley in A&E last Sunday. From 12 midnight until 11am next morning and they sent him back to his GP.

It feels like Pascal O'Donoghue and Michael McGrath looked at Kwasi Kwarteng's budget and decided 'suur lads we'll do the opposite'. How about removing or bigger reductions of the usc charge? And all this giveaway money could they not put some in the health service?

With regards to schools how possible will it be to reduce Dublin schools to a ratio of 23:1? We're in Cork and that is the around what it is for my kids school at least for the first 6 years (9 year old is in 4th class and they're around 22 while 7 year olds class is around 21).
The budget is a giveaway one but we cannot be spending all our money now if there's going to be major crisis down the line. But again I'm no economist!

We should, but the G7 have agreed a minimum corporation tax of 15%. The agreement should (and maybe will) be extended to the rest of the EU so that Ireland may have to increase it in the future.

Many British stars (eg. Cheryl Cole, Olly Murs) have set up companies in Ireland to take advantage of the 12.5% tax rate. Also, for Irish residents, income earned by writers, composers, visual artists and sculptors from the sale of their works is exempt from tax in Ireland (up to €50,000), and is one reason why people like Joe Elliott benefit from living there (and provide jobs for locals - who pay tax normally). The highest tax rate is 40% - something the UK has matched this week.

The Irish set-up includes a lot of tax benefits for "the rich" and a big dose of trickle down economics, and it would not go down well with UK lefties, but you just need to read again what this has allowed in the latest budget.

I live in the North and would rather stay here. My partner has just been diagnosed with Terminal cancer. At least we don't have to worry about paying for treatment on top of everything else.

Ireland has resisted EU pressure and pressure from the US for years and years. It would take a lot to get them to agree to a single fiscal policy.

Unless you are specifically targeting the UK market, there would be very little use in domiciling a business in the UK.

Also, for Irish residents, income earned by writers, composers, visual artists and sculptors from the sale of their works is exempt from tax in Ireland (up to €50,000), and is one reason why people like Joe Elliott benefit from living there (and provide jobs for locals - who pay tax normally).

U2 doesn't pay tax in Ireland. Their company is based in Holland as that has a lower tax rate even than Ireland.

You don’t have to pay for cancer treatment in Ireland either.
You can pay for a nicer room in the hospital.

It is some diagnostics testing and elective surgeries that have huge delays. Things like hips and cataracts.

Last week the FT found that the poorest 10% of the population in Ireland were 64% better off that the poorest 10% in the U.K.
It is only when you get to the wealthiest that people in the U.K. are better off.

@mishmased thank you for that post - it was really interesting to hear the differences. On the medical front, I spent a couple of years working in Jersey (back in 2007). I think I had to pay about £20 for a GP appointment, but could call on a Friday morning and be offered a choice of being seen that afternoon, or would Saturday morning be more convenient - I nearly fell off my chair! It did work well, but obviously much smaller than the UK (and a long time ago).

No, you've completely misunderstood how tax works and you are trying to compare apples and oranges.
Your tax credit is NOT a tax free allowance, or anything like it.

@mishmased Invisalign in a 9 year old is completely inappropriate. The only malocclusion that should be corrected in a child that age is either a cross bite which would be solved with a straightforward removable appliance costing at most a few 100 no matter where you go or looking at functional appliances to modify growth which Invisalign won’t help. Honestly hearing you are paying €4000 for appliances for a 9 year old is shocking as she will not be ready for it, even if you were opting for that instead of conventional fixed braces (it would not be my choice as a dentist) she is too young.

Exactly like Ireland then.

There are a lot of misunderstandings on here. British people never seem to know anything about Ireland, whearas Irish people know a lot about the UK.

Sorry to hear of yours DPs diagnosis.

No one pays for cancer treatment in Ireland.

The budget was a start at recognising the cost of living crisis but disappointingly did not do enough to address the housing crisis.

we are a high earning household and our net joint monthly income will increase by approx. €125 pm. I’d rather have seen this go to the more vulnerable in society.

Good news for DD as she will receive a rebate on college fees which will help in part to fund her accommodation for the year and the
increase in minimum wage to €11.30 will increase her monthly income from her part time job by €60 per month.

So all in all It looks like they did their best to cover all income households as best they could with the surplus tax balance they had to spend.

Poorer people also get fuel allowance. That's 30 odd quid a week from October to April. There are also double payments of various benefits like child benefit, jobseekers, pension. As well as €500 lump sums to carers, people on working family payment etc. All to help with the rise in the cost of living. The electricity payment will be about 5 months of electricity for us.

Things like free hospital care, free school books, the extension of the gp visit card are all really positive steps I think. I'm not sure if the lump sum payments are the way to go over the long term but time will tell I think.

As much as possible? Really? As a renter I call bullshit.

we are a high earning household and our net joint monthly income will increase by approx. €125 pm. I’d rather have seen this go to the more vulnerable in society.

Doubling a universal benefit like Children’s Allowance makes little sense either. It will make a big difference to some who are struggling but for others it’s not really necessary.

@Oinkypig my 9 year old has overcrowding and was referred by my dentist. DC has two baby teeth that never came out due to mouth being overcrowded (showed on X-ray) and is being looked after by an orthodontist. We were told that usually it is around age 11 but best practice these days from 9/10 if needed. We thought about it and decided to go ahead. I did have a chat with our GP and he did say he felt 9 was a bit young but he admitted to seeing a lot of younger kids in braces these days. Now I feel like I need to have another chat with the orthodontist.

Free contraception for 16 to 30 year old women. I’m 46 so still have to pay.

Are they trying to keep as much money circulating as they can, rather than address inequalities? Like small business?

I'm 37 and gave to pay too but can you not see that it is going up in increments? It was up to 25, now 30, I would expect it will continue to go up. My contraception costs me 8 quid a month, we'll actually nothing as we hit the €80 drugs payment scheme limit with just one of dhs meds. Of all things to grumble about thaylt wouldn't be top of my list. The waiving of the inpatient fees is huge I think. I remember when dh was in hospital a few years ago being so worries about how long they were keeping him in and how much it was going to cost us.