To think this a crazy price for DofE Silver Award

[Fgsvirgin]

School have just sent the letter. (Not a fee paying school.)

It is £420 (plus a £50 deposit).

That seems like an awful lot to me for a trip where you have to provide the transport there and back yourself, provide the food and some of the kit.

The price is set by the third party company organising it and does include training sessions (not an overnight session just a couple of classroom based sessions and one 7 hr walk), the registration fee and loan/hire of the tent, cooking stove thing and coat/waterproof bottoms and sleeping bag if you want. This is what the deposit is for.

Does that not seem a really expensive hike to you?

I suppose I’m comparing it to other school trips where they get a couple of nights away with food and transport for less than £300.

I should have seen it coming when Bronze was £300 but I paid that blindly thinking that is how much these things cost!

If your child did D/E Silver, how much was it?

(I realise the key here is that there is a third party company arranging it so I suppose I’m looking for responses from those who also have experience with third party D/E companies.)

Hubs is currently training as a DoE co-ordinator with a uniformed cadet org. He has to do his Mountain and Low-Land Leader courses (not cheap!) which involve a lot of hiking weekends. He has a minibus licence, a DBS, and is also doing an FAW (first aid) course. So before he can even set foot outside the classroom, there's 5 costs that have to be met. Oh, 6 - I forgot about the DoE reg.

The organisation the school is using will need all of these for every member of staff. If we were having to pay for all of these outselves, we'd be lucky to get change out of a grand.

However- by paying for it, the cadet organisations can keep the costs down for parents - and some units will help with registration fees for parents that are struggling. Our unit does.

The volunteer teachers, cadet, Scouting, Guiding and St Johns staff that make it possible for children and young adults to do DoE and other activities are amazing.

I'd agree with this re the skills training and the level of independence reached too.
Am horrified by some of the reports I read about on hear, and occasionally hear from families who have done the award through some schools (not all, I hasten to add).

Thankfully you said not all schools. I'm part of my DiofE team in school. It costs our pupils nothing to do Bronze or Silver- we've not planned a Gold as of yet, but it's coming. Our City Council invested a lot in training all of us (we're assessors too) in hiking/ biking/ kayaking and the lead teacher (Geography) works his backside off to get funding from everywhere and anywhere for our supply tests/ equip/ waterproofs/ boots. The kids have DodE one afternoon the entire year, so it's done properly. We give up lots of time on Saturdays/ overnights.

The area I work in has huge deprivation, so pupils can't pay. I willingly give up my time for these kids as they get huge amounts out of it: it is certainly not about a thing on a CV for them at all.

Wish the teacher bashing MNers would think of this kind of work at times.

I don't understand why that matters? I watch them while I'm watching my youngest play and the D of E teens are doing a good job, they're helpful, polite and look enthusiastic, they're out there every Sunday at 9am including in Jan and Feb when it's freezing and tipping it down. Whether they enjoy or do it just to get that bit of D of E ticked off they are still learning about commitment and reliability, they're learning skills and patience in helping people younger/less skilled than themselves and they're giving something to their community. They can be relied upon to turn out for the whole season (season runs Sept to April and it's very rare for the Bronze kids to leave when they've done their 3 months). I think instilling the idea of volunteering in young people is a good idea, rather than just hoping it will occur to them organically. Teens do lots of things they might not like eg GSCEs or having braces, I don't see that wanting it or not changes the worth of the outcome?

Arguably, the kid who is less keen to do it might actually gain more benefit in terms of learning things, stretching themselves, people skills..

I really appreciate our teen helpers and I always send DD with a Christmas card and box of Maltesers for the ones that help her team. They always look really pleased to be thanked.

Sorry, I'm laughing at the idea that teachers get paid overtime for weekend/holiday residential trips. We don't. Teachers are volunteers on trips.

The reasons private schools can do it more cheaply is they can recruit teachers who have the skills and qualifications to run these things and extra curricular activities are part of their contract (and no, usually no extra pay, most private schools pay the same roughly as state, some less, some - like Eton - more).

Some state schools will happen to have teachers who have the skills and qualifications and volunteer to give up their time which makes it cheaper. Many won't and will have to pay third party companies.

Someone else up thread said 'where have all the volunteers gone?'
Emotionally - they ran out of goodwill after all the complaints they got that little Seraphine 'mustn't be told off' at Brownies after hitting another child with a stick.
Practically, childcare for their own children - people are having children later and grandparents are older on average and can't help as much as 20 years ago.
Financially - fewer people can afford to volunteer. They need that time to work more hours, or struggle with the hidden costs of volunteering (eg bus fares, parking charges, that all add up).
Physically - I just don't have the energy anymore so I gave up. With a 6 day a week job to make ends meet, DH also working and us juggling the children and housework, I just can't do it. Even 20 years ago families could manage on one income or one and a half, which gave a bit more space. Now they can't.

@Bluegingerbread valid points but I do wonder what the % of the teen volunteers carry on helping/being involved once they have got their award.
To be honest I don't know much about DofE. Never heard of it in my school days (80s/90s) even though I know now that it did exist then.

We didn't pay anything, they do it with the teachers

I don't know what %. In the case of my kids' Scout group a lot remain volunteers through uni and quit when they get to the stage of their first full time job taking too much time. My school didn't do D of E but did insist that sixth formers spent one afternoon a week doing some kind of volunteer work and I've volunteered with various things once my kids got to school age so maybe the idea stuck for me or maybe not. I think a lot of people don't necessarily volunteer all their life but come in and out as work and family commitments change. And that's fine, it shouldn't need to be that the same people do it forever, new blood can be useful.

Either way, in my area the supply of D of E teens definitely benefits the community and keeps activities going and cheaper than they'd be otherwise so I'm grateful for it. In an affluent area it might not be as obviously beneficial I guess.

Bloody hell. I could take my entire family of 4 hiking for that amount. I don't have that amount of spare cash lying around, so it would be a no from me!

I hope my kids don't get a whiff of that when they're older. My DH did Bronze at secondary school, but it wasn't something ever mentioned at mine. I don't think I even ever heard of it until I was in my early 20s.

Wow that sounds steep - it was £100 for bronze and £120 for silver & I £550 for gold but DS has just finished silver and decided not to do gold (thank goodness as we couldn't afford it!)

I am hysterically laughing at teacher's overtime at weekends! 🤣🤣🤣. Did you not read my post about willingly giving up Saturdays/ overnights. I know NO teachers who are paid for any extra time (including the theatre/ dance/sports trips that are late nights). What on Earth do you think goes on in schools? We barely have money for books!

Totally agree with Bluegingerbread - it doesn't matter if the kids don't continue, it's the skills/ experience/ perspective they get whilst volunteering.

Totally agree with @Bluegingerbread too.

Anecdotally, I know a LOT of youngsters who start volunteering through DofE, continue long after the 3 or 6 months they "need" to, for the award.

@DrinkingAllTheGin That's hilarious, the idea that the teachers that give up their time are even offered any time off in lieu, let alone overtime

Mine all worked alongside completing theirs.
The lack of transport seems more of a rural vs City thing rather than a "class" or financial thing to me.
Yes, when going to a Gold presentation, I'll not disagree that there more youngsters there from a middle class background BUT, it isn't cost that is a barrier, if that were what the youngsters / their families really wanted them to do, as has been shown by this thread. Scouts, Guides, BB, GB offer DofE for minimal costs, and cadets are even able to subsidise it. You won't find anything better vfm to take your dc to than any of those organisations.
I know a Team that organise many DofE opportunities year after year, to many dc from deprived backgrounds and money isn't a barrier for any of them.

I am very much aware there will still be some families where the children work in the family business straight from school until well into the evening every day of the week, and other families who are homeless and in other dire straits, but for most, there is no reason that DofE shouldn't be open to them possibly unless the family lives very remotely.

@Kite22 like I said - I don't know much about it really.
Was never mentioned in my school days so hadn't really heard of it until a few years back.

I disagree, and as an academic with multiple undergrad students, the ones who complete Gold, are generally more able (for many reasons).

Again, for contexts my husband was an admissions tutor (amongst other things) for many years. I routinely sift through and help with applications on one I teach on.

Both courses were oversubscribed and required good STEM A levels
so as you may have gathered, we work in STEM.

The applicant obviously need to get the grades, no question at all.

But all things things being equal between applicants, and you’d be surprised how often this happens, D of E does make a difference.

Not least because in looking for well rounded people to undertake a course which requires a versatile range of skills, you’d rather Jenny with her D of E gold, than Sarah who played netball.

You can say it doesn’t make a difference because you told your kids not to bother or you personally don’t read personal statements for applicants (not sure which it is) - that doesn’t make what you say right.

They don’t award UCAS points for it no, but if you were doing Geography or field biology work for example, it’s extremely helpful.

I'm afraid DofE is not an accessible thing to do. It's a nice to have on a CV but way out of my budget for my DC.

I agree with you - but picking students based on DofE is biased towards middle class families where it is the done thing.

I can't help thinking it's become evolved away from it's original intention.

I'm sorry if I offended any of you out there by suggesting teachers might (should) get paid.

You have to pay?
bloody hell I hope my DD doesn’t remember I was egging her on into doing the DofE

It really depends. As I mentioned upthread, we didn’t have to pay a penny for ours (bronze and silver) run in school - state school, deprived area. And DD’s experience absolutely did not match those PP who suggested that a school-run DofE not involving a private company is somehow not the real thing, or a bit rubbish.

She had a great experience, her group did all the planning themselves supported by the teachers. She did volunteering once a week which was a real commitment but she stuck with it.

Her school is about as far from a leafy, middle class secondary as you can get. Grateful to the staff who go above and beyond so that any student who wanted to could take part.

Thank you. This is exactly the experience of pupils in my school. Those hinting it might be a bit crap should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm just home from my schools bronze assessed expedition. 90 students. 12 members of staff over the weekend, 11 unpaid using own vehicles and fuel plus losing (for most - needed 10 at all times) both days of the weekend, straight back to work tomorrow, worked till Friday.

We did a practice one earlier in the year, same commitment, same staff.

To train as a Leader, my course was a total of 10 days over 3 sessions, again at my expense re fuel etc.

We don't lend out tents/bags anymore as the norm, they get trashed very quickly as teens don't care if its not theirs.

4 of the teachers are off to silver assessed in the next month as well.

Replace this with a paid company and you can see why the costs mount up.

Volunteers are getting rarer in all walks of life, expectations are much higher constantly, thanks are rarer.

Yep! It is awfu to do that.
Once you get to know them, you learn about it after the fact, marks will always trump ex-curric stuff.

We do interviews though, so actually get to speak to them and get to know about more about them that way.

Well done you. Those kids will be hugely enriched by your commitment. Been there - the training seems like it goes on and on...