There is no ambulance service anymore

[Snog]

Twice so far this year NHS111 have told me that my dd needs paramedics to attend for severe chest and abdominal pain and that they are on their way.

Both times the ambulance service called me later and said they would not be attending that night as too busy.

I am posting this because I want people to know that there is no functional ambulance service any more.

If you need an ambulance try to take your loved one to hospital yourself instead. This could save their life.

Obviously when you get to hospital good luck with that but at least you are not waiting for an ambulance that will never come.

You are aware that there are doctors (and nurses) working for 111 right? And that call handlers sometimes pass calls on to them?

True and they always have.

But we now have a system that is basically down to luck, its not where you live, i ve had 2 experiences with Ambulances that couldn't have been better, equally in the same Ambulance Trust people have had appalling service.

Ambulances nr me have been waiting outside AE dept's with sick very poorly patients for 10 or 15 hours, thats time they can't be rescuing you plus they then go off shift.

As for "take them to AE yourself" sure, broken upper body bones fine but if that person cannot walk and are elderly, even with manpower, you risk causing them serious harm & what happens if you get stuck in a traffic jam or an accident?

We live in a 1st world country, if other european nations can have decent healthcare, why can't we?

Are you saying only people having a cardiac arrest or unable to breathe at all are entitled to an ambulance? Strokes are not the highest priority. Should we just leave them. And broken legs etc if they can breathe and their heart is still beating.

Do you think that is an acceptable level of care for a service?

It's exactly the same problem here, although anecdotally I've been told that there are fewer ambulances overall since they merged 3 or more ambulance services into one big one.

NHS 111 decided I needed an ambulance when I was wracked with appalling upper GI pain a few weeks ago. They sent a non-urgent ambulance, and it got here in about 40 minutes. At the time, the wait time for urgent ambulances was several hours and there were around 6 waiting to unload patients when we got there.

The "non-urgent" ambulances can't be used for urgent cases as they don't carry all the kit, plus the crews can only give oral pain relief. I wonder if they're a false economy, as I could have got a taxi to the hospital and if it had had all the kit it could have reduced the waiting time for someone who needed help urgently.

@Devilishpyjamas

Most with a broken bone or suffering a mild or mini stroke can be taken to hospital by someone else.

They don't need an ambulance

Ambulances are based on need

So of course someone having a heart attack will be prioritised over a 90 year old who has fallen down the stairs

I think those of you saying ‘take them yourself if they’re not about to die’ have never tried to
move and unconscious adult to ferry them in a Renault Clio 🙄

They come when there is an immediate risk of life. It's all about risk. Yes it's not ideal of course it's not,
It's the ones that have falls and break bones that suffer. It's horrific and it shouldn't be. A broken back is very urgent of course. But it's not necessarily a risk to life.

Pain doesn't equal risk to life. But those people who fall shouldn't be on the floor waiting. But it's completely understandable to prioritise cardiac arrest / loss of consciousness / CAT 1s

I was a cat 1 4 days ago. Rushed to hospital. I flew past the people waiting on trolleys and straight in. I had loss of consciousness and my heart was pausing. I've been in ever since and I'm still here.
The ward I'm on is quiet but the staff are absolutely trying their best. They're on their knees.

A&E on the other hand.. people go there for such trivial reasons. I was talking to a nurse about it this morning and someone came in as their acrylic nail got infected. GP could've sorted it. People are bringing in relatives to sit with them leaving the poorly people standing or waiting on the floor.
Countless people waiting to be seen chatting about happy as Larry scrolling on their phones taking SELFIES of them with their cannulas in the picture with a big thumbs up.

If you've had a medical emergency you won't be sat there taking selfies if your cannula so you can upload on Facebook.

Drives me insane.

Last year my DH was with a work colleague who fell and cracked their head open and obviously needed medical attention. They called an ambulance, and one was not available. After about an hour the hospital send an Addison Lee taxi to take him.

It doesn't really matter though if it's hard

Or even if not possible

They're not a priority for an ambulance, it's as simple as that. If they don't have people around them to take them to hospital that sucks but thems the breaks

My MIL is in London. She waited 9 hours for an ambulance a few months ago. She's 84, had pleurisy and pneumonia, and went straight into intensive care from A&E.

While she was waiting, NHS111 sent an urgent care doctor to check on her twice. Both times, SIL asked if she should just drive her to the hospital and was told no, in case MIL deteriorated en route.

With hindsight, she now realises that she should have ignored them and taken her anyway, but at the time she felt she shouldn't go against the doctor's advice.

And it's exactly people like your DHs colleague that clog up the system with useless calls

They didn't need an ambulance ffs

I’m not saying they people with heart attacks shouldn’t be prioritised I am saying people with a broken leg shouldn’t need a family member with a large car and actually speed is if the essence with stroke so they should be able to get a bloody ambulance. The person with the broken back died - even if it wasn’t caused by the delay, I think spending half of one of your final days in pain, on the floor, waiting for an ambulance is pretty shocking for a country that can afford tax cuts for millionaires.

and before you say ‘call a taxi’ you can wait an hour for a taxi here and at night there are often none. We had an large number of Romanian taxi drivers in our city and they have gone. We do not have Uber.

Thanks for posting, this has been my experience too.

It is so important that people know that if they are at all able to get to a hospital a&e themselves (taxi etc) they do so instead of being reassured that “an ambulance is on its way to you” which may be 4 hrs, next day, or just cancelled completely.

OP’s point isn’t about why this is happening- huge topic! - it’s please be aware and take steps to protect yourself and your loved ones from this situation if you can.

Therm’s the breaks? Well no, we could say it is unacceptable because it is. These are government choices.

It doesn't matter how long you're on the phone
It's not delaying the ambulance, the ambulance is arranged from the minute it's needed as it's all done on computer. So if you ring and say the person isn't breathing, and give the address, they will be giving you CPR instructions but from the second you said not breathing, that's triggered an ambulance

And the ambulance probably "took its sweet time" because they were on another job, or stuck at hospital. It's not the staffs fault, they really are trying their absolute best

He was bleeding heavily, they probably (mistakenly) thought an ambulance might get him to hospital quicker than a cab...?

I realise it's very callous and not how a civilised society should work, but I did wonder as I walked past the care home yesterday and saw another ambulance arriving, why people in such a poor state of health already are being prioritised.

We had a situation when DH was dying. We knew he would die within weeks. He was in a lot of pain and I rang the hospice to ask for a review of pain meds. He made the mistake of saying the pain was in his chest, so they insisted they couldn't help him with the pain medication until he'd been assessed by an ambulance.

Even if that had saved him from a heart attack or blood clot, it would only have given him a few more weeks of being bedbound in pain 😥

I haven’t had time to read the whole thread so this may have already been mentioned, but the across England statistics released by the NHS show that there is a serious problem and standards are not being met.

eg, www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/08/20220811-Statistical-Note-AQI.pdf

Look at the graph on page 2 for scarily long cat2 response times!
As this is averaged across England, some areas are doing better, but some are doing far worse. This is a huge problem.

My mum has a Careline pendant that automatically calls key contacts if she falls or a button is pressed. Yesterday it went off but by a fluke set of circumstances none of her contacts could be reached. They did the next part of the protocol and automatically called an ambulance to go to her.

2 hours after her fall, I picked up a message on voicemail to say this had happened, an ambulance had been called but the wait time was currently 24hrs for an ambulance. Bearing in mind this is an 86 year old with diabetes, heart issues, partial sight and reduced mobility, who lives on her own. Anything could have happened to her.

I immediately rushed across and arrived to find her laying on the wet grass unable to get up, having fallen and hit her head on the edge of her concrete patio steps. She was soaked through with blood (to the point her clothes had to be cut off and binned later) which was literally jetting out of her forehead. Fortunately she had retained consciousness and had been trying to apply pressure with an apron, but the wound (artery apparently) would not stop. If she had lost consciousness, she would have bled out well before an ambulance.

I took her up to A&E, who were brilliant, but there were 15 ambulances all parked outside with patients they were unable to hand over as nowhere for them to go. All therefore out of action, with frustrated paramedics who would far rather have been out attending emergencies rather than effectively being an extension of the A&E waiting room.

Unless it's immediate threat or life get them in a car or taxi. Or a neighbour to help. Put provisions in place jf you have them.

Because if it's not life threatening when the ambulance eventuality turns up, you don't get blue lighted. They'll just transport you from A to B without the lights on. Could've saved time doing it yourself.

So In many many cases if it's not an immediate threat of life, you taking the person to hospital will be quicker. As I said. Once they turn up and it's not life threatening, they will pootle along with other traffic. Which could've been avoided and got to the hospital quicker if they were taken themselves.

@Lancrelady80 that doesn’t seem like an efficient system. Did it take them
two hours to call you?

How awful @Lancrelady80 why does she live on her own in such a vulnerable state?

Elderly people who fall often don't have strength to bear any weight to help themselves up. My dad in his final months was probably about 9 stone. He fell and didn't have any strength to try and get up. My sister was unable to move him herself and had to call on a neighbour to help. In that instance they didn't require an ambulance and he was not hurt but it would have been incredibly difficult (and potentially dangerous) to manhandle someone downstairs and into a car if he had broken a bone or required hospital treatment.

@miserablecat

Why would it be quicker than a cab, a cracked head with a bit of blood is in no way, shape or form a priority for an ambulance. So they'd be waiting longer for one to arrive - for good reason.

We never have, nor should we, fund an ambulance service for people who can get to hospital themselves.

They should be for those who need immediate medical treatment.

An old person with a broken bone is not a priority, and it shouldn't be.