To have felt so frightened- horse rider

[Applechaff]

I have a beautiful horse who 9 times out of 10 is fantastic. But unfortunately on the other 1 time he can be an absolute menace.

its not pain related, nor is it the saddle or ulcers. I think he’s previously been allowed to get away with this behaviour when he doesn’t want to do something and now he knows he can get away with it. It’s frustrating because he is such a lovely horse for the majority of the time and I know how good he can be when he wants to.

this is a horse who hacks past buses and vans without flinching, and who I’ve galloped in a field with lost stirrups, and who flies over jumps. But he can be so quirky and it’s tiring at times. He can buck, rear, hop- basically all the quirks when he doesn’t get his own way. He also has very little respect for me and drags me inhand, pulls me off my feet and barges me about. I don’t think he was ever taught proper manners before we got him so it’s not his fault at all but it’s obviously not ok either. He doesn’t do it with everyone, it’s just certain people whom he thinks he can push his luck with.

today he decided he didn’t want to go into the arena and instead wanted to go elsewhere. Cue an absolute tantrum- rearing, bucking, broncing. Trying everything to get me off.

im not a scared rider and I wasn’t phased by it, but tonight I suddenly feel a bit overwhelmed by it all. Usually his rears are only little hops, but today he went completely up on to his back legs and as embarrassing as it is to admit, I was actually quite frightened at one point. I suddenly thought he was at risk of toppling back over on to me.

im not a scared rider, I’ve had awful falls before and have had quirky horses but tonight it suddenly hit me that if he rears back onto me and lands on me, it could be catastrophic. He’s a very big horse and suddenly it all seems so scary and overwhelming.

once he realised he wasn’t getting his way, he behaved like an angel and rode beautifully!

i just don’t know why I’m suddenly so overwhelmed by it all. The big rear today was just so unexpected and I suddenly felt so scared of falling off. Usually I’m so unphased and am always the one to ride the quirky horses so I don’t know why I suddenly feel so frightened of falling off when it’s never bothered me before

i know it’s baby steps, and I am seeing an improvement in his manners and we’re working very hard to bring out the best in him, but sometimes it’s so tiring and frustrating.

im riding him again tomorrow and I’m just praying we don’t have anymore tantrums and absolutely no more big rears. The thought of it fills me with absolute fear which I know is ridiculous but I can’t get it out of my head

has anyone else had a similar experience?

[Muminabun]

Hi op get this moved to the tack room. You are not ridiculous at all. Plenty of very experienced riders lose their nerve. What you wen through sounds very concerning. He sounds dangerous. How long have you had him? Do you do plenty of ground work with him. Some horses if new can take ages to calm down with a new owner. He may also just be highly strung in his temperament. Take it easy and don’t ride him if you don’t want to. Give it a break for a few days. Do some excercise in hand. Ride a safe pony to get your confidence and perspective back. Many older riders would in no way in hell get on horses we were happy to ride when we were younger.

[FurAndFeathers]

How do you know he’s not in pain?

are there any particular triggers for the rearing/bucking?

it sounds like he’s telling you very clearly that he really didn’t want to go into the indoor school. Why not?
does he dislike the work done there? Is it painful, is he bored?

I know it’s unfashionable but animal behaviour is as a result of learning or emotion. It’s very likely he’s trying to tell you he’s unhappy about something and unfortunately in horses we have a tendency to write this behaviour off as naughty/difficult

[Applechaff]

@FurAndFeathers

How do you know he’s not in pain?

are there any particular triggers for the rearing/bucking?

it sounds like he’s telling you very clearly that he really didn’t want to go into the indoor school. Why not?
does he dislike the work done there? Is it painful, is he bored?

I know it’s unfashionable but animal behaviour is as a result of learning or emotion. It’s very likely he’s trying to tell you he’s unhappy about something and unfortunately in horses we have a tendency to write this behaviour off as naughty/difficult

it wasn’t the indoor arena, it was just the outdoor arena (he’s not scared of it, he’s in it all the time and is absolutely fine with it when he wants to be lol)

he could see the feed buckets about 20 feet away and he was absolutely determined he was going over there. He nearly dragged me off my feet to get there. Then when I was on I obviously wouldn’t let him go over and he got pissed off and napped and wouldn’t go in the arena, then the quirks started. I think previously he’s been able to get away with whatever he wants basically

sometimes he just has his moments where he doesn’t want to do something, and once he went in he was absolutely fine, but from what we know he has been allowed to use his weight in the past and he’s just learned a lot of bad habits. If he doesn’t want to do something he will act quirky- It’s really not his fault because he doesn’t know any better so I wouldn’t class him as naughty. He’s improving everyday with all the work we are putting in but he has his moments x

[FurAndFeathers]

That makes sense OP - it does sound like previous learning.

I appreciate it’s pretty scary though. You don’t want to be in the receiving end of a tantrum going over!

Does he get plenty of turn out time, and horsey social company too? He’ll likely be more receptive and less bolshy if he’s otherwise relaxed and happy.

[Applechaff]

@Muminabun

Hi op get this moved to the tack room. You are not ridiculous at all. Plenty of very experienced riders lose their nerve. What you wen through sounds very concerning. He sounds dangerous. How long have you had him? Do you do plenty of ground work with him. Some horses if new can take ages to calm down with a new owner. He may also just be highly strung in his temperament. Take it easy and don’t ride him if you don’t want to. Give it a break for a few days. Do some excercise in hand. Ride a safe pony to get your confidence and perspective back. Many older riders would in no way in hell get on horses we were happy to ride when we were younger.

Thank you very much, he’s definitely highly strung and has a real stubborn streak but when he’s on top form he is absolutely amazing (which is why it’s so frustrating!)

We’re doing lots of groundwork with him so he can respect his size and learn some manners because it’s not his fault if he doesn’t know them if he’s never been taught properly

I think because im still in the youngish rider age group (20s) I feel like i shouldn’t be scared, and I’m not usually, I think sometimes you just get such a fright and it really shakes you up doesn’t it!

thank you for the advice x

[Babamamananarama]

This does sound scary and I'm not surprised you feel shaken OP.

I think you need to employ a professional behaviourist. As PP said, we are often too quick to write horses off as naughty or quirky when they are displaying behaviour which we don't understand and which causes us a problem.

There are loads of reasons he could be non-compliant. If he's getting really over-stimulated by food buckets, is he getting enough forage? Does he have healthy herd relationships? Is he stimulated/could he be bored? Is he getting good-quality sleep? Have you had his back/bit/teeth checked recently?

The obvious thing to do first would be no repeat of the situation - if food buckets are the trigger then make sure they are out of sight when you are riding?

[Teacupsandtoast]

Have you got a good coach and/or experienced and helpful people at the yard on hand? Is there a particular when he's ridden that makes him behave like that? Full rears are terrifying, so don't feel silly for how you feel

[Applechaff]

@FurAndFeathers

That makes sense OP - it does sound like previous learning.

I appreciate it’s pretty scary though. You don’t want to be in the receiving end of a tantrum going over!

Does he get plenty of turn out time, and horsey social company too? He’ll likely be more receptive and less bolshy if he’s otherwise relaxed and happy.

I definitely agree with you there! So many horses are dismissed as just being naughty or cheeky, and I suppose in a way he is, but it’s only the result of a lack of training/groundwork/schooling so he’s jot naughty in the sense that it’s not his fault. He’s just doing what he’s been allowed to do!

yeah he’s out 365 days of the year and in at night, he’s got his friends in the field and gets a variety of work (schooling, jumping, XC, hacking off road, lunging, inhand ground work, galloping) he’s great at hacking on the road too and never puts a foot wrong but when he’s going through a quirky period I keep him off the road just in case he has a moment, but when he is hacking on the road he’s a star.

I think it’s just a big learning curve for him and he’s suddenly realising he’s not the boss and it’s bringing out the baby behaviour that should have been nipped in the bud when he was a youngster.

I think for the first time today I suddenly felt so scared when he went right up, he probably weighs around 600kg and I’m never usually scared, but it suddenly felt so overwhelming and frightening!

x

[Dotcheck]

Maybe get this switched to the Tack Room?

[WingingItSince1973]

How long have you had him? I was going to suggest lots of groundwork. Xx

[Applechaff]

Yeah he doesn’t usually see the feed buckets, it was just my fault I didn’t get it out of sight today. Sometimes he wants to go to the jumping arena or the XC and is outraged that he has to go into the flat work arena. Or vice versa. Sometimes he barges me into the wall and gets pissed off when he’s not allowed to do that. Other times he gets pissed off because he wants to go out to the field and he will literally drag me if I’m walking him in hand, or he will bolt/nap when being ridden. Other times he just does when he’s having a bit of a tantrum

I’m working hard to stop this behaviour because ultimately he is far too big to be behaving like this. I think it’s a female thing too- he can be quirky and bolshy with males but is significantly worse with females.

I’ve got trainers and other people out to him to get their opinion and perspective. Everyone is of the agreement that he’s been allowed to take the piss with his previous rider and basically did whatever he wanted. He’s naughty in the sense that he’s willfull and the behaviour is definitely established, but he’s not bad or naughty because it’s not his fault if he’s never been taught not to do it. He’s only an animal at the end of the day and he’s not trying to be bad, he’s just acting in the only way he’s ever known to get what he wants x

[FlowersFlowersEverywhere]

Have a look at Sophie Seymour on Facebook. She works on a lot of this type of horse and gets them back into good behaviour/routines/boundaries. Might be worth enlisting some external help on this one before you get hurt…

[QuestionableMouse]

You need to get the groundwork sorted. If he doesn't respect you on the ground, he'll never respect you under saddle. Find a good trainer who isn't into crackpot NH and really work on that. Get him going long reining too. In the shirt term, I'd look at either putting a chain over his nose or getting a rope halter so he can't drag you around. Be really firm with him - you need him to respect you and your space.

I'd rather they bucked than reared - less chance of them going over on you! If you feel him getting light in front, circle him but drive him forward. They can't go up if they're going forward. You might get a buck instead but that's better!

[CaptainThe95thRifles]

Horses don't just flip out for no reason. I know that it's the done thing to push horses through this sort of shit, but nine times out of ten, the horse has a good reason for how he's behaving.

In the nicest possible way, you should be scared, because a horse coming down on top of you is fucking scary - 600kg landing on you could kill you, if not seriously injure you. If he's rearing vertical, you don't piss about - you work out what's gone wrong. And that invariably begins with a vet. I've known so many "quirky" horses who everyone thinks are just "naughty", but invariably, there is something going on.

[CandyLeBonBon]

It's a long long time since I was in your position op but I remember it well. Learned behaviour. Just like humans. Even if it's not 'good' behaviour, it serves us/them in some way.

Agree with Pp that ground work/getting back to basics seems key here. He sounds quite clever? You haven't said how old he is?
Also what breed. My experience of this sort of behaviour very much relates to cob/ cob types but that could just be my luck!

They're like super-powered toddlers.

[Applechaff]

@CandyLeBonBon

It's a long long time since I was in your position op but I remember it well. Learned behaviour. Just like humans. Even if it's not 'good' behaviour, it serves us/them in some way.

Agree with Pp that ground work/getting back to basics seems key here. He sounds quite clever? You haven't said how old he is?
Also what breed. My experience of this sort of behaviour very much relates to cob/ cob types but that could just be my luck!

They're like super-powered toddlers.

You got it in one! Cob! With his breed he’s slower to mature anyway and the fact he’s probably never been taught proper boundaries or manners as a youngster has made it worse. Hes basically been allowed to think he’s the boss and he can do whatever he wants. He’s 7yo so still quite young for a cob anyway

[Applechaff]

@QuestionableMouse

You need to get the groundwork sorted. If he doesn't respect you on the ground, he'll never respect you under saddle. Find a good trainer who isn't into crackpot NH and really work on that. Get him going long reining too. In the shirt term, I'd look at either putting a chain over his nose or getting a rope halter so he can't drag you around. Be really firm with him - you need him to respect you and your space.

I'd rather they bucked than reared - less chance of them going over on you! If you feel him getting light in front, circle him but drive him forward. They can't go up if they're going forward. You might get a buck instead but that's better!

I completely agree! I’d take any buck over a rear.

He’s definitely confident and established in hopping and broncing when he doesn’t get his way. And he can throw some very colourful bucks too and some little mini rear hops. In fairness though, tonight’s big rear seemed to take him by surprise aswell. He kind of stopped afterwards as if to say wtf just happened and had a puzzled look on his face! I don’t think he realised he could go that high!

im hoping he never does it again because for the first time in my life I was actually frightened. Like I said, I’ve had some really nasty falls in my life, been tangled in stirrups, been bucked completely out the arena but for the first time ever I felt slightly scared. Then I felt bad for feeling scared because I sat the rear and nothing happened so it was a bit dramatic about what was nothing. For some reason it just overwhelmed me though and I guess it’s sometimes easy to forget how dangerous this sport can be.

usually I see falls as being one of those unfortunate thing that happen sometimes but rarely cause serious injury, but today really shook me up and I surprised myself at how much it overwhelmed me

[lannistunut]

Leaving aside the horse issue, there would have to be something seriously wrong with you not to feel some fear when you are genuinely at risk.

Horse riding is a dangerous activity. Try to accept your feelings, they're natural and designed to protect you. You're engaged in a battle of wills with an animal. Only you can judge whether this is a wise idea!

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

I completely understand the loss of nerve. The older I get the less tolerance I have for falls; I don’t bounce as well as I used to!

For groundwork I would highly recommend Warwick Schiller. His methods have helped me a lot, especially with a very nervy section D. TBH I’ve given up with that particular breed 🤣
Another path could be the TRT method, he also seems to get v good results, although I haven’t personally used this method.

[ThisisMax]

My son is a very very good rider and we got him a competition pony that did this. We did vet, back, teeth etc but in the end got rid of him. Life is wayyy too short to take those kind of risks and spend that time fixing someone elses history. Get rid and move on. Once they learn to rear there is no going back.

[CandyLeBonBon]

Yeah 7 is still really quite young and physically for a cob they've not reached their physical peak yet.

Cobs are quite gobby - I had one who used to be a driving horse and at 9 had only been broken for riding for a couple of years prior and his behaviour was very similar. He was basically an obnoxious teenager who wanted to flex his muscles.

[Newuser82]

@CaptainThe95thRifles

Horses don't just flip out for no reason. I know that it's the done thing to push horses through this sort of shit, but nine times out of ten, the horse has a good reason for how he's behaving.

In the nicest possible way, you should be scared, because a horse coming down on top of you is fucking scary - 600kg landing on you could kill you, if not seriously injure you. If he's rearing vertical, you don't piss about - you work out what's gone wrong. And that invariably begins with a vet. I've known so many "quirky" horses who everyone thinks are just "naughty", but invariably, there is something going on.

I'd totally agree. What checks has he had by the vet? Has he been scoped for ulcers? Checked for kissing spine? I have known a couple of horses behave like this and both had medical issues, the first had ulcers and arthritis, the second turned out to have lymphoma. I have also seen a horse rear vertically and fall backwards on top of its rider. Not something I ever care to see again. If all the appropriate checks haven't been done then I would do this as a matter of urgency then if all clear (I'd be surprised if there were no medical issues to be honest) then I would get professional help before you or the horse get hurt. And of course it isn't silly to be scared, they are big, dangerous animals.

[notsosoftanymore]

I have recently been doing a course with these people trust-technique.com

I can highly recommend the theme and the underlying emphasis on building a relationship with your animal. A lot of it is about working with horses but it includes many other animals. The videos and the teaching are excellent. It's worth a look.

[mountainsunsets]

I know you say it's not pain related but as the rearing is a new behaviour for him I would really recommend a proper, thorough vet check - including teeth, and then check all his tack is comfortable and fitting correctly, then you know 100% from today that it's behavioural and not pain related.

[Stickytreacle]

I think using different tactics that avoid confrontations all the time are probably worth a go. You need work to be enjoyable for both of you so that a battle of wills isn't the outcome.
I'd try lots of groundwork initially, including lots of little challenges such as walking over/through/around things. If he grinds to a halt and refuses then be prepared to wait it out, or use tactics like circling around/reversing to prevent him escaping. Once you decide to force him to do something then his strength will beat you every time. He needs to respect and trust you and building the groundwork will help with that. Agree that it's worth having checks done, something as simple as a pinching saddle or tight bridle headpiece can cause reactions from an uncomfortable horse. Cobs are also notoriously stiff and arena work can be difficult, so soreness could be an issue worth watching for.
Id also make sure you have full control on the ground and use a bridle rather than headcollars.
We had a cob mare who would blow a gasket and rear when faced with situations that she couldn't cope with and found overwhelming. She also did the surprised face afterwards too. We took things right back to basics and she did make a cracking all rounder eventually. 7 is still young in cob terms.