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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

child benefit higher tax band - nothing in budget

123 replies

tea1tea2 · 23/09/2022 20:51

AIBU to think with all the rising living cost , child benefit higher tax charge shouldbe moved from £50000 to £75000 something? i am not earning that much but DH does .

OP posts:
PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 25/09/2022 12:43

Hearthnhome · 25/09/2022 12:30

There’s talk of them raising it in January.

The one rule I would like to see around child benefit that it not getting it starts on household income

Seems bonkers to me that a single parent earning 60k can’t have it. But a couple each earning 45k can.

It is completely ridiculous, and frankly a single parent on say 55k could probably really do with it. Particularly if they're in the south east which is disproportionately likely.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/09/2022 12:43

tea1tea2 · 25/09/2022 11:18

There is an article in dailymail that there is possibility of restoring child benefit for high earners

General Election looming, then.

There's a surprise.

FingersofFish · 25/09/2022 13:20

mummatobeat33 · 23/09/2022 21:08

It should really be household based not individual. A family with a combined income of 99k from two 49.5k salaries get all the benefit. My partner now earns just above 50 but i dont earn anywhere near that and we are now taxed 🤷🏻‍♀️

This. We have only one wage which takes us over whereas I work with colleagues who have reduced hours to bring them both under the threshold but still get it. I get that it's hard to administer but by now I assumed someone would have been working so it could be fairly administered!

Eastangular2000 · 25/09/2022 13:27

Anotherguy · 23/09/2022 21:25

Just scrap child benefit altogether.

it’s a ridiculous benefit, always has been. I have kids but earn too much to receive it, but why should people pay tax just for you to receive it because you have kids?

makes absolutely no sense this one

This.

gatehouseoffleet · 25/09/2022 13:48

Woolandwonder · 23/09/2022 20:56

Do people earning 75k really need to claim child benefit? I think it should change so it's fairer across households though.

There's an argument for doing away with it altogether - the world is overpopulated and we wouldn't need to concrete over the countryside if people had fewer kids.

As for not needing it, if you pay into the system you are entitled to take out of it as well. I think some people think richer people should pay in and never take out. Also means testing is expensive. But the current system is ridiculous anyway, I am not an appendage of my husband and he's not an appendage of me.

I would just get rid of it in 10 months' time - anyone pregnant now wouldn't be affected. Anyone getting pregnant would be doing so in the full knowledge that they would not receive child benefit. I'd rather the money be spent on health or education. Although it wouldn't be with this government, it would just be swallowed up in pointless tax cuts for the rich.

Redqueenheart · 25/09/2022 13:56

''@ClocksGoingBackwards
I think it was better when every child was entitled to child benefit. Every child deserves to be supported by their government, not just those whose parents can’t afford them alone.''

No!

First of all they are not supported by '' their government'', they are supported by tax-payer money.

There is no justification for the tax-payer supporting the children of people who make the amount of money you are quoting.

Their parents, who chose to have them, make more than enough money to support them. No additional help is needed or justifiable.

IhateHermioneGranger · 25/09/2022 14:02

Anotherguy · 23/09/2022 21:25

Just scrap child benefit altogether.

it’s a ridiculous benefit, always has been. I have kids but earn too much to receive it, but why should people pay tax just for you to receive it because you have kids?

makes absolutely no sense this one

It was to enable women to have their own money and ensure children were fed and clothed especially in abusive situations.

IhateHermioneGranger · 25/09/2022 14:10

@Anotherguy sounds like sour grapes. You earn too much to get it so let's deprive the poor of the benefit.

People should be glad they earn too much to qualify. The opposite isn't great.

IhateHermioneGranger · 25/09/2022 14:15

rainbowmilk · 25/09/2022 11:47

I’d also prefer CB to be scrapped altogether. The idea that taxpayers are funding savings accounts for other people’s kids (which is what everyone I know uses CB for, they don’t need it) when they may be struggling with their own bills, that’s mad to me. An extension of CB to even wealthier people is laughable.

How many save it entirely? Maybe a few do on MN but in real life where I live it is used for essentials.

Scottishskifun · 25/09/2022 14:25

mummatobeat33 · 23/09/2022 21:08

It should really be household based not individual. A family with a combined income of 99k from two 49.5k salaries get all the benefit. My partner now earns just above 50 but i dont earn anywhere near that and we are now taxed 🤷🏻‍♀️

This!
I had a friend ranting about the proposed change today til I said but surely your family combined income is far greater then 50k which it is! But apparently that's different!

I actually have colleagues who stay working part time rather then go over the threshold as they would lose more money then they gain

clearopalite · 25/09/2022 14:55

SausagePourHomme · 25/09/2022 12:42

that's true if the higher earner shares finances equally with the lower earner, but as we see all the time on mumsnet that sometimes isn't the case.

This. It makes a difference to people in this situation.

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 15:01

tea1tea2 · 23/09/2022 20:51

AIBU to think with all the rising living cost , child benefit higher tax charge shouldbe moved from £50000 to £75000 something? i am not earning that much but DH does .

You want to increase, by 50%c the minimum taxable amount for CB?

Why? Why this figure?

I mean YABVU, but am curious to know why £75k?

rainbowmilk · 25/09/2022 15:03

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 15:01

You want to increase, by 50%c the minimum taxable amount for CB?

Why? Why this figure?

I mean YABVU, but am curious to know why £75k?

I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest it’s because it’s what her DH earns.

KevinTheKoala · 25/09/2022 15:13

DrDetriment · 23/09/2022 21:09

No. Its too high as it is. No household on more than say 40k should be getting money just because they chose to have
children.

No family with two working adults should NEED to claim extra money to survive full stop, and yet the cost of living means that many do. That said £50,000 is a lot of money to be struggling so much you need an extra £20 a week, 1000's of families survive on far, far less than that.

I think struggling for money with two parents working because you're paying a very high rent (often overcrowded too) and finding it hard to afford school uniform is very different to struggling for money while having a large mortgage (on a nice house that will eventually be yours) and finding it hard to afford a holiday. I'm not saying that's the OPs situation though.

Rosesandteacups · 25/09/2022 15:19

I would rather the government actually do something to subsidise childcare rather than increase the threshold to be eligible for child benefit. We are entering a massive crisis for childcare as nurseries are closing left right and centre because they cannot get staff. People do not want to work that hard for the minimum wage they will get paid in childcare.

Biker47 · 25/09/2022 15:23

It should be either scrapped or universal regardless of income.

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 15:35

People with a household income of up to 75k still wanting benefits?!

This has to be a joke surely

avocadotofu · 25/09/2022 15:36

I totally agree, it would make much more sense than cutting the 45% tax rate if you want to stimulate the economy.

clearopalite · 25/09/2022 15:44

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 15:35

People with a household income of up to 75k still wanting benefits?!

This has to be a joke surely

People with a household income of 99k (two adults earning 49.5k each) still get child benefit. That’s unfair when a household with one person earning £60k and the other earning zero or very little doesn’t.

TalbotAMan · 25/09/2022 16:04

Anotherguy · 23/09/2022 21:25

Just scrap child benefit altogether.

it’s a ridiculous benefit, always has been. I have kids but earn too much to receive it, but why should people pay tax just for you to receive it because you have kids?

makes absolutely no sense this one

Once upon a time, in the dim and distant past, a large proportion of income taxpayers were married men with SAHM wives and children. In recognition of the fact that it is harder to maintain four people on one income than one, that man in that situation could claim a personal allowance plus a married man's allowance plus a child's allowance for each dependent child.

That was criticised because it meant that families where men who were paid too little to pay income tax had no support with the costs of raising children. First, then, they introduced Family Allowance, which was paid for second and subsequent children, but child allowance was still claimable against income tax. Further criticism lead to the abolition of Family Allowance and child allowance, and to the modern Child Benefit. It was paid universally partly for administrative reasons but mainly the political one that otherwise middle earners would have less money, plus Family Allowance and Child Benefit were normally paid to the mother so feckless fathers couldn't drink and gamble it away.

(Later on they decided that SAHMs were to be discouraged and knocked married man's allowance on the head too since working wives would have their own personal allowances.)

Then Osborne decided that Child Benefit should be effectively abolished for higher earners, but as others have pointed out messed it up hugely. He and his successors then allowed fiscal drag to remove it from more and more familes, and they stopped increasing it for inflation, transferring the support for poor children into Child Tax Credit and Universal Credit.

Ultimately, though, the question is whether there is a level of income at which income tax should stop recognising that to keep children fed, clothed and heated etc costs money that childless/post-child adults do not need to pay.

TalbotAMan · 25/09/2022 16:08

Scottishskifun · 25/09/2022 14:25

This!
I had a friend ranting about the proposed change today til I said but surely your family combined income is far greater then 50k which it is! But apparently that's different!

I actually have colleagues who stay working part time rather then go over the threshold as they would lose more money then they gain

Same here. I've moved jobs now but I had a female colleague on just under £50k (her DH earned less than she did) who said that she wasn't interested in promotion because, while it would come with more pay, once 60% had gone in higher rate tax and child benefit clawback, the extra pay wouldn't compensate for the extra work and responsibility.

rainbowmilk · 25/09/2022 16:13

Ultimately, though, the question is whether there is a level of income at which income tax should stop recognising that to keep children fed, clothed and heated etc costs money that childless/post-child adults do not need to pay.

This is overly simplistic. There are many single childless people who are in poverty or close to it because they either earn just enough not to be entitled to help, or because the few benefits that single childless people are entitled to are paltry. Those people may nonetheless be paying tax, some of which converts into CB, and some families are able to save CB and create child savings accounts, or use it for holidays.

My view for what it’s worth is that the system needs overhauling to ensure that people aren’t living in poverty and having to choose whether to eat or heat, and by people I mean those with kids and those without (the latter not being all wealthy simply by virtue of having no kids to clothe and feed). CB shouldn’t be universal just because some are using it for essentials - most if not all other benefits are means-tested for a reason.

TwitTw00 · 25/09/2022 16:24

wast542 · 23/09/2022 21:42

Yeah I totally agree with that. A sole earner on 50k supporting a family would struggle

Well then their spouse should go to work (with exceptions made for single parents). My husband and I both earn a bit under the limit but between us work 100 hours a week. Frankly I think we should get more than a couple working 40 or 50 hours between them. We also work in jobs where we'll never earn loads - teaching etc - but with our qualifications could have chosen higher earning occupations.

TalbotAMan · 25/09/2022 16:34

rainbowmilk · Today 16:13
This is overly simplistic. There are many single childless people who are in poverty or close to it because they either earn just enough not to be entitled to help, or because the few benefits that single childless people are entitled to are paltry. Those people may nonetheless be paying tax, some of which converts into CB, and some families are able to save CB and create child savings accounts, or use it for holidays.

In my first job, I was single, childless and in exactly that position (almost - it was back in the married man's allowance, child allowance and Family Allowance days). I agree that support for single people, particularly men, is inadequate. I remember having to try and compete in the private rented sector for flats with a single income against couples with a double income. It was not pleasant - though it did drive me to change career and move to a cheaper part of the country, which was probably a Good Thing,

It's not overly simplistic. There is always a wider picture to tax which is being used to fund benefits (as opposed to building roads, paying soldiers etc etc) as to whether the right amounts are being taken from and given to the right people.

At the moment the UK birth rate is running below replacement level. You have to ask whether there should be tax/benefit incentives to encourage people to have children, and, if so, what those should be.

kittensinthekitchen · 25/09/2022 16:52

tea1tea2 · 25/09/2022 11:18

There is an article in dailymail that there is possibility of restoring child benefit for high earners

That's great - exactly what society needs at this time - giving more to people the more they have. Wonderful. Hmm

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