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Original poster

Trickle down: To ask higher income earners...??

373 replies

venusandmars · 23/09/2022 16:28

Following on from the budget announcements today which disproportionately benefit higher earners (particularly anyone earning over £150,000 pa), if you have a higher income and will therefore benefit from the tax changes, how will this really impact on your spending?

Will you actually spend more on local services (more coffees out in a locally owned cafe)? Will you increase what you pay your window cleaner? Will you donate more to local charities or spend more time volunteering? Will you make voluntary contributions to HMRC? What WILL you do with the extra money?

OK, I know IABU asking people to account for their choices, none of us know the financial pressures that higher earners might be under, but it seems to me that the whole 'trickle down' economic theory is completely flawed. So little of that additional money is going to be seen by lower earners - and almost none to those who cannot work.

I'm not in the +£150K bracket but I have enough when I know others are really struggling. I have increased what I pay my window cleaner. Over the next 4 months I will use my 100% of my energy payment to donate to local foodbanks. It's small stuff, nothing heroic.

I am despairing about the tax announcements today.

OP posts:
MarmadukeSpillageEsquire · 23/09/2022 18:51

EarlierInTheDay · 23/09/2022 18:33

It won't make any odds. We already give to charity and I volunteer two full days a week. My cleaner and gardener are already paid well. They were paid in full over lockdown etc.
We have bought three of our kids houses and will buy the fourth child a house very soon( they have a mortgage in principal,at a great rate) . All four kids will have benefitted from first time buyers stamp duty savings and all will have benefitted from help to buy isa's. So our cash goes towards our kids futures. We also pay care home fees for my husbands Dad. (It's very expensive) We have Bupa

We've always paid all our taxes. We are minimizing inheritance tax by giving cash to our kids now but once we die there will be a lot of inheritance tax paid back into the countries 'pot'. Very little of our wealth is from property and a lot is from income on which we've already paid tax.

We've paid millions in tax over our working career if that balances things out a little 🤷🏻‍♀️. We are retired now and the 'extra' cash is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Both of us are from modest backgrounds. It's my husband who has made almost all the money through being intelligent and hardworking. He is as honest and decent as it's possible to be.

We've always voted labour.

intelligent and hardworking. He is as honest and decent as it's possible to be.

Love when this gets trotted out on threads about high earners! I personally am thick, lazy, dishonest and horrible.

LimitIsUp · 23/09/2022 18:51

@DomesticShortHair
What an utterly facile comment - you do realise that the majority won't voluntarily pay it in to the exchequer so that poster paying it would be tokenism. Tax needs to be government mandated

bellac11 · 23/09/2022 18:54

Im going to be 800 quid better off due to the normal tax rate reduction

Im not turning my nose up at it but equally this is really bad for the economy and I noticed the pound drop off a cliff once it was announced.

Terrible for growth, we are looming into a huge recession.

Isitsixoclockalready · 23/09/2022 18:56

Kissingfrogs25 · 23/09/2022 18:31

We are trickle down family.

I am going to be very honest, I have reflected on this mini budget and what it means - and how they have come to this decision, and I have reached the conclusion that this is the ONLY thing that is going to work.

We have a sizeable percentage of serious professionals that create the wealth in this country and are paying a huge amount of tax, and we have a very sizeable percentage of uneducated people that are not looking to improve their lives especially as long as they have sky TV and enough for a few pints. They have outsourced their personal responsibilities to the state which is paid by the wealth creators. Let us not pretend the bottom group does not exist, then somewhere in the middle we have a lot of people that range from extremely talented and capable, to the bottom rung that really contribute very little but are plodding through life JAM. If we continue to pour in money at the bottom, at some point the wealth creators that can live anywhere in the world, and they are keeping the nation afloat are going to leave - the only thing keeping them here is perhaps the outstanding schools, universities and stability. Without them we are totally totally fucked. No one in this country wants to admit this simple fact. We are powered entirely by the very few, and they have not been represented for a very very long time.

As a society we need to do more to the raise the game across the whole nation. It is not enough to simply languish at the bottom or to let your children fail, we have far too many families that simply do not care about education/attainment/career progression. I look at countries like Singapore etc, where the expectation is that all children will succeed as a starting point, and you do what it takes as a family to support achievement and ability. The kind of mindset that starts when a child is very young, in some places we just don't have it here. Our benefits system is too generous.
The government are not going to be able to overhaul something of this magnitude in the time frame we have to turn our economy around, so we are going to play to our strengths (with the wealth creators) and hope they can sustain us with our support until the war is over and we have the luxury of looking again at solutions to the poverty cycle/low expectations.

The trickle policy is all we have right now, sorry folks.

It's not really trickle down economics, it's zero sum economics. Actually, regardless of having to placate the very wealthy, who by their very definition do not need continued breaks and a metaphorical 'doffing of the cap', this country has much going for it, not least the fact that it will probably become one of a shrinking number of countries that will be (relatively) secure as climate change takes hold around the world and renders a significant amount of it harder and harder to remain in.

This budget is a kick in the teeth for many people who work hard, don't rely on handouts and contribute in a significant way also to the economy. I'm not going to pretend to be destitute and am fortunate to have been around when banks were still freely offering mortgages and have now almost reached the end of said mortgage. Of course there are people around who avoid work and shouldn't be on benefits but there are also a huge amount of people who work very hard and this government treats them with contempt with a budget like this.

The tax reduction will hardly help with inflation, higher and higher council tax and inflation.

Skolo · 23/09/2022 18:56

I think that many people on this thread are actually higher income earners.

Skolo · 23/09/2022 18:57

Skolo · 23/09/2022 18:56

I think that many people on this thread are actually higher income earners.

I don’t think

Blossomtoes · 23/09/2022 18:58

DomesticShortHair · 23/09/2022 18:43

It’s ok, you can voluntarily pay extra tax directly to The Treasury, so there’s no need to worry.

Phew, that’s that sorted then! Storm in a teacup, eh?

Show quote history

Why would anyone do that when they know it will be pissed away by a government addicted to giving its mates money? At least with a charity donation you know the recipients are people who need it.

MagicMatilda · 23/09/2022 19:01

I always over pay cleaner, gardener and tip generosity to nail lady, hairdresser etc. where possible I chose local or independent businesses.

LadyEloise1 · 23/09/2022 19:05

I wonder what those "red wall" voters who voted Conservative in 2019 think now ?

cyclamenqueen · 23/09/2022 19:06

JooliaJane · 23/09/2022 18:19

Old Etonian bastard
Rishi (Harrow) would not have done this.

Rishi was Winchester, but you are right he wouldn’t have done this whatever his faults because he understood that the problems this country has with productivity are nothing to do with working hours or pay but with investment. We need to massively incentivise investment by businesses especially in technology and manufacturing

Iamnotthe1 · 23/09/2022 19:06

Trickle down economics works exactly as it was intend to. It was just always meant to be a lie to manipulate the "lower" tiers of society while allowing those who can to gather and hoard wealth. It's a grift, a scam, a misdirect.

This kind of economics has never produced positive results for the masses and it never will. It's sacrificing the many for the few.

VanCleefArpels · 23/09/2022 19:08

ElizabethSchuyler · 23/09/2022 16:31

I just want to say that as a high earner I am enraged and disgusted by todays decision. I’m happy to pay a higher rate of tax because I recognise to very fortunate position I find myself in.

THIS with bells on. I’m HNW and cannot fathom what these people are thinking. We can’t buy any more groceries, go out for any more meals, wear any more clothes than we already do.

QueenQueef · 23/09/2022 19:08

I will be gold plating out toilet with all that lovely extra money

May also buy another Bentley

Isitsixoclockalready · 23/09/2022 19:09

LadyEloise1 · 23/09/2022 19:05

I wonder what those "red wall" voters who voted Conservative in 2019 think now ?

One has to admire the way that the Tories have managed to degrade trust in politics to the extent that instead of them getting blamed for failure, the question I always hear is "who would do better?". I would argue that it's about time we find out.

LimitIsUp · 23/09/2022 19:10
Hmm
LimitIsUp · 23/09/2022 19:11

That was directed at @QueenQueef

the80sweregreat · 23/09/2022 19:11

If you want a meal out or nice things it'll cost more. The tax breaks won't buy much the way things are going anyway !

Getoff · 23/09/2022 19:12

it seems to me that the whole 'trickle down' economic theory is completely flawed

Has anyone in the government said there will be a trickle-down benefit? If so, I agree it's bollocks.

If not, you are erecting a straw man, attacking the government for a claim they didn't make.

Onceuponatimethen · 23/09/2022 19:13

We are higher income but not 150k+

Both me and dp think the it’s are madness

We might be more likely to take a holiday but are largely going to focus on saving it to pay the mortgage especially as interest rates go up!

CantHaveTooMuchChocolate · 23/09/2022 19:13

Trickle down economics have been proven to not work, and only widen the gap between poor and rich -

eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Hope_economic_consequences_of_major_tax_cuts_published.pdf

I won’t be changing my spending habits like a lot of others, any extras will go in savings.

I can’t help feeling they’re now past caring and grabbing what they can and handing over a poison chalice to the winner of the next GE….

Onceuponatimethen · 23/09/2022 19:14

Meant to say we think the tax cuts are madness

maincrop · 23/09/2022 19:14

I'm self-employed, so benefiting both from the corporation tax cut and the income tax cut. I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation and it looks like we'll be about £30k better off (!) in the right circumstances, but we're very cautious about lifestyle creep so we'll be trying hard not to spend any of it.

(still not voting Tory though, sorry)

maincrop · 23/09/2022 19:15

Agree with the other posters that it's quite unhinged as a policy.

maincrop · 23/09/2022 19:16

Also - aware that the Tories are unlikely to win the next election, so preparing for taxes to go up again under the next government to balance the books.

BasicDad · 23/09/2022 19:16

With the uncertain economic forecast over the next two years (estimated), I'd started thinking about tightening discretionary spend. Add the recent NI increase of 1.25%, increasing energy prices and overall cost of living, plus looking after my parents quite a bit, it pushed that thinking a bit further.

Based on today's new policies, I am not going to tighten my spend as much as I was thinking.

I'll be honest though. I don't have a huge opinion on what's fair. I rely on whatever democratically voted party is in power to set the rules, and use that as the measure of what the majority want. I then play by those rules.

I've been through the personal allowance taper, hit the additional tax rate, and recently the pension taper. I just pay it and adjust my lifestyle however I see best based on those rules and economic circumstances. I always aim to hit my savings goals though.

I'm in an emormously privileged position. I worked for it though from a young age. And my very lofty income is only a recent phenomenon, so it's not like I have millions of wealth amassed. I have a goal to retire early and then pay it back through working with charities or donating all part time income to local causes, as the plan is to be financially independent.