Page 2 | Emergency Budget

Wouldloveanother · 2022-09-23T09:38:18+00:00

What are we all thinking? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62920969 A discussion thread…

Ypsilanti · 23/09/2022 11:11

PeekAtYou · 23/09/2022 10:55

This is a classic Tory budget.
Make the rich richer, the poor poorer and fuck public services because they can't sell it and make money for their friends.
What is the point of the BoE trying to control inflation when Liz is doing the opposite?

This. In spades.

If this budget isn’t the trigger to get people out on the streets, then god knows what will. It is abhorrent, divisive, will cause even greater inequality, and frankly we can wave goodbye to the NHS and social care.

SettingPrecedents · 23/09/2022 11:12

Marginal tax cuts for the less well off (just enough to get votes), bigger tax cuts and income increases for the wealthy. No money to pay for the NHS to work properly, no new hospitals. Our household will do reasonably well out of it, but the country will suffer.

Heyyebskeikwbevg · 23/09/2022 11:12

@Wouldloveanother what?! You don’t think working people should pay for todays pensioners?? But that’s the social contract. That’s why we pay tax and NI because we know we will be looked after when it’s our turn. Bloody hell you’re heartless! I don’t think the U.K. or any civilised society is the place for you!

RippleQueen · 23/09/2022 11:13

Xenia · 23/09/2022 10:57

It is the first time since well before 2005 that I have felt a budget was sensible and had useful measures. None of the stamp duty changes will help me or my children (who have all bought so are not first time buyers), but the 19% income tax rate is useful as is abolishing the 45% rate for £150k plus people which worked as a kind of dampener on London.
It means the upper rate of tax/NI combined is now 42% which is much more acceptable than 47% plus what was the 1.25% new, now abolished, NI rate - nearly 50% - it was a very excessive marginal rate particularly for those with 9% student loan tax on top.

There is a long way to go however to move to the smaller state and low tax state I want. I would have rather stamp duty and IHT were abolished but at least it is a start.

So well done.

Tory bot

Original poster

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:14

Heyyebskeikwbevg · 23/09/2022 11:12

@Wouldloveanother what?! You don’t think working people should pay for todays pensioners?? But that’s the social contract. That’s why we pay tax and NI because we know we will be looked after when it’s our turn. Bloody hell you’re heartless! I don’t think the U.K. or any civilised society is the place for you!

I said not any ‘further’, not ‘not at all’.

we should definitely pay pensions but I don’t think we should pay for elderly social care. The NI increase was for social care not pensions.

OP posts:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 23/09/2022 11:16

Ypsilanti · 23/09/2022 11:11

This. In spades.

If this budget isn’t the trigger to get people out on the streets, then god knows what will. It is abhorrent, divisive, will cause even greater inequality, and frankly we can wave goodbye to the NHS and social care.

Show quote history

It will absolutely get people out on the streets, but possibly not in the way you meant it.

Watch the number of homeless people on our streets soar as a result of this budget. So many people are already struggling to cope, and it's about to get a whole lot worse.

Fucking Tories.

Skyellaskerry · 23/09/2022 11:18

Also, there was mention about planning changes which I reckon will reduce current environmental protections. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Heyyebskeikwbevg · 23/09/2022 11:18

@Wouldloveanother but social care is means tested. My elderly relatives pay for their own care, they’re certainly not loaded. If you need social care and can’t pay what are you supposed to do? It’s not optional

Yarboosucks · 23/09/2022 11:19

The tax and NI cuts will be very good for me, but I can't feel positive about them, it makes my stomach churn tbh.

I don't need tax cuts, I am happy to contribute to the community chest and to fund public services. What I am not happy about is when public spending is not well managed. That is one of our greatest issues right now. The NHS is on its knees we are told, but every time I visit a hospital, there are as many staff sitting in offices chatting (not in meetings!) as those running around like blue arsed flies. To much admin, to many monitoring and measuring, across all public services it seems; with the only real effect being the diversion of budgets away from service delivery.

LongLivedQueen · 23/09/2022 11:20

but I don’t think we should pay for elderly social care. The NI increase was for social care not pensions.

You don;t think we should for care for elderly people who can't pay for it themselves?
Wht do you think we should do with them then?

GingerGloucester · 23/09/2022 11:21

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 10:46

I’m pleased about the national insurance rise being reversed.

I’m really saddened by this, people had got used to it and knew that we had to raise money someone how and I liked that it was ring fences for NHS and social care :( I was happy for my tax to go towards that and I know speaking to my friends we had all got used to it

Original poster

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:21

Heyyebskeikwbevg · 23/09/2022 11:18

@Wouldloveanother but social care is means tested. My elderly relatives pay for their own care, they’re certainly not loaded. If you need social care and can’t pay what are you supposed to do? It’s not optional

There should be a two tier system paid for by means testing. If you’re contributing to your own care above X amount you get a choice of home, better facilities etc. If you’re not contributing you get a basic package without choice.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:22

GingerGloucester · 23/09/2022 11:21

I’m really saddened by this, people had got used to it and knew that we had to raise money someone how and I liked that it was ring fences for NHS and social care :( I was happy for my tax to go towards that and I know speaking to my friends we had all got used to it

Show quote history

Social care isn’t the NHS, the budgets don’t come from the same place. The hike was to pay mainly for social care for the elderly. It’s not the same thing.

OP posts:

LongLivedQueen · 23/09/2022 11:23

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:21

There should be a two tier system paid for by means testing. If you’re contributing to your own care above X amount you get a choice of home, better facilities etc. If you’re not contributing you get a basic package without choice.

Show quote history

Wow. Poor people, get fucked, in other words.

But you don't want to pay towards the basic package anyway, so how are they going to provide that if you get what you want?

LionessesRules · 23/09/2022 11:24

I don't get it.
If you earn minimum wage, you will get a small benifit from tax and ni reductions.
BUT, the more you earn the more you benifit. And if you earn over 150k, you have had a massive windfall.

How is all this going to be paid for?

User0610134057 · 23/09/2022 11:24

What’s the rationale for abolishing the higher rate of tax? I don’t understand!

GingerGloucester · 23/09/2022 11:24

KnickerlessParsons · 23/09/2022 10:57

Have the tories forgotten that they do actually need tax money to, you know, pay for shit?

The idea is that we all spend more, thus suppliers need to hire more people, or pay people more, so either more people pay tax, or people pay more tax.

Income from VAT will also increase if we spend more.

If we are all spending more then demand increases and then inflation increases! The budget seems so misaligned with what the BoE are trying to do to control inflation

Original poster

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:25

LongLivedQueen · 23/09/2022 11:23

Wow. Poor people, get fucked, in other words.

But you don't want to pay towards the basic package anyway, so how are they going to provide that if you get what you want?

Show quote history

But life isn’t free is it? If you’re a pensioner that has amassed nothing after 40+ years of working life, then how can you expect the same treatment as people who have saved for their retirement?

I said in my post, it should be funded through means testing, but those who contribute above a certain threshold should get more choice in their care to reward them for paying.

There has to be incentives somewhere

OP posts:

Bottleup · 23/09/2022 11:27

Higher earners are not getting a windfall. They are not being given anything. Just less

Bottleup · 23/09/2022 11:28

Posted too soon.
Just less of their income is being taken from them.

GingerGloucester · 23/09/2022 11:28

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:22

Social care isn’t the NHS, the budgets don’t come from the same place. The hike was to pay mainly for social care for the elderly. It’s not the same thing.

Show quote history

Hence why I said NHS and social care. The rise was to fund both the NHS and social care regardless of whether the budgets are separate or not. Either way they are areas that needed funding.

picklemewalnuts · 23/09/2022 11:29

MissyB1 · 23/09/2022 10:45

I think it’s a very “right wing Tory” budget. It really concerns me. You cannot reverse the NI rise, cut income tax and invest in public services! So basically it’s a “screw the public services” budget. The NHS is in absolute meltdown, how the hell does this help?
Lots of economic experts are saying the Government are pulling in a totally different direction to the Bank of England, they are on different pages and that doesn’t bode well.
Truss is putting all her eggs in a trickle down economics basket. I don’t know anyone that believes that will work.

I don't know much, I'm not an economist or a political animal, so mine isn't a knowledgeable opinion but... that's my first thought. It's concerning.

Original poster

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:29

GingerGloucester · 23/09/2022 11:28

Hence why I said NHS and social care. The rise was to fund both the NHS and social care regardless of whether the budgets are separate or not. Either way they are areas that needed funding.

Show quote history

I can’t see anything that said the rise was for NHS. They said it was for social care only.

OP posts:

Kennykenkencat · 23/09/2022 11:32

MissyB1 · 23/09/2022 10:45

I think it’s a very “right wing Tory” budget. It really concerns me. You cannot reverse the NI rise, cut income tax and invest in public services! So basically it’s a “screw the public services” budget. The NHS is in absolute meltdown, how the hell does this help?
Lots of economic experts are saying the Government are pulling in a totally different direction to the Bank of England, they are on different pages and that doesn’t bode well.
Truss is putting all her eggs in a trickle down economics basket. I don’t know anyone that believes that will work.

I think reducing taxation actually raises the income the government gets from taxation because companies paying their taxes to a lower income tax country then swap to the the U.K. tax because that is lower.
People have more money in their pockets so spend it on things that raise VAT.

That sort of thing.

Raising taxes just drives businesses to look at their tax planning and move their business around so they pay tax elsewhere and people have less money in their pockets so don’t spend as much which means less tax revenue from VAT which then all leads to a spiral of higher and higher taxes to cover the cost of everything.

I am sure someone can explain it better

WineLife · 23/09/2022 11:33

Wouldloveanother · 23/09/2022 11:25

But life isn’t free is it? If you’re a pensioner that has amassed nothing after 40+ years of working life, then how can you expect the same treatment as people who have saved for their retirement?

I said in my post, it should be funded through means testing, but those who contribute above a certain threshold should get more choice in their care to reward them for paying.

There has to be incentives somewhere

Show quote history

So what happens when you’ve spent all your ‘hard earned money’ on your care and you’ve used the money from your property and you’re now the same as the all those ‘Poor People’ who just haven’t worked hard enough during their lives to pay for their own care?! You still need to pay for care.

I’ll tell you what happens, you get offered some shit hole by the council that you wouldn’t want to keep a dog in. Because that’s what happens now and it’s only going to get worse. And you’ll soon be complaining that it isn’t fair as you’ve spent everything you’ve ‘worked so hard for’ and you shouldn’t be treated like the poor people scum!

OR what we could do is find a way to give all our elderly a decent standard of social care which is properly funded which is what the NI increase was supposed to be helping with. Along with increasing provision to reduce bed blocking in hospitals and therefore helping with wait times etc.