Well, maybe its up to parents to teach John not to go around raping people.

i agree that more should be done to help girls and young women understand that they are not under any obligation to service men.

Yes.

She told them that it doesn't matter if you wanted to kiss or touch or more, as soon as you want to stop you can say 'stop, you are raping me' and it will be true

Thankfully they were shit hot about teaching consent at ds's school as was his dad and I because I don't even know where to start with what she taught them!!

Very, very important parallel message.

Which does not mean that one should not give the message about speaking up, with clarity, and knowing that saying 'no' is perfectly normal and deserves respect. (Both sexes for this one, though - but delivered separately - because not all victims of sexual assault are female)

I remember being at school and a boy used to put his fingers between my legs,push upwards (through my clothes) and walk off laughing

he used to sniff his fingers and laugh about it with his mates

the teachers did fuck all-I was told to stay away from him and my parents told me I must have ‘led him on’

led him on?I couldn’t fucking stand him

this was mid-to-late 90’s

i told my dds that if anyone-I didn’t care who it was-to scream if anyone did anything to make them uncomfortable

so one dd did-a lad had tried to slide his hand up her top in class-so she screamed and kicked off

the teachers tried to tell her off and then they called me in to ‘discuss dds attitude’

ill never forget that snooty teacher telling me that dd was ‘creating for the sake of it’

soon fucking backed down when I rang the police in front of her-I put in a complaint to ofsed as well-our cards where marked from that point with that school-I ended up moving her

nothing happened with the boy-he came from a rich-ish,middle class family-this was late 2010-ish

I think the police ‘had a word’

had a word?I wanted to rip him a new one-he knew what he was doing-he was certainly old enough

I drill it into them all (boys and girls) that if they don’t want to do something,then they must kick off and get out and if they do something and the other person says no,they stop-I’m aware it’s not that easy but it has got them out of sticky situations at times

That's bloody dangerous! Way to teach a lot of girls something that isn't factually true.

Obviously the concept of consent needs to be rigorously taught but to teach a girl that a boy is raping her if he kisses her after she wants him to stop is just so unhelpful for everyone.

Rape has a really clear legal definition and it's important to teach that as well as teaching consent.

Absolutely.

OP look up the 'tea video' on you tube, that's what's taught in most schools now.

Absolutely.

The "Cup of tea" analogy is perfect. That's what my dc were taught.

I think it's definitely really important to talk to our children about consent.

But. There isn't a magic formulation of words that will stop John from doing whatever he decides to do. I think if you're looking back beating yourself up thinking that saying "no" or "stop" would have made a difference in any assault then you should let that go.

My lads were taught the cup of tea one too. For around a year one of the funniest things I could do was offer their friends a brew. Cue Beavis and Butthead sniggering and ‘your mum wants a cup of tea’

Using the word rape may deliver a short sharp shock, enough to make the situation stop

I agree that the cup of tea video is excellent and that this group discussion was odd and potentially harmful. Rape is a very serious allegation and it doesn’t help anyone to have the word used incorrectly. It’s as important not to weaponise it as it is to make sure girls are not afraid to use it in appropriate situations

Did you say anything while your children and their friends were laughing about the fact cartoons and analogies have to be compiled to stop them raping girls?

She told them that it doesn't matter if you wanted to kiss or touch or more, as soon as you want to stop you can say 'stop, you are raping me' and it will be true

I have no idea what legislature you are describing, sounds like some American Fundamentalist?

In UK, an unwelcome kiss touch or fumble IS NOT RAPE. So telling a 13 yr old girl her handsy boyfriend is RAPING HER is down right misleading, and harmful to both.

That kind of hyperbole leaves girls and boys too ignorant to be properly protected from real threat. Its from the same school of misogyny that a woman's virtue is lost forever if men see her face or ankle.

Ok, so use the word assault instead. 'Stop John, that's assault!'

I do think some boys and men think they are 'being persuasive', 'trying it on' and that girls who say enough are 'being a pricktease' 'frigid' 'playing hard to get'.

I agree with OP's message, if not that use of the word rape.

I agree with the principle, but it isn't actually true. Kissing someone who does not want to be kissed is not rape. Perhaps "John you are sexually assaulting me".

The tea video - do you guys mean this one?

I do not like it at all. Here are some quotes:

"If they say that they are not sure, then you can make it, but be aware that they might not drink it. Don't make them drink it."

So... if a girl says she is not sure, you should... get out your dick and put a condom on, in case she wants it...??

"If they say Yes please that's kind but when the tea arrives they don't want it. Sure that's kind of annoying as you've gone to all the effort of making the tea, but they remain under no obliogation to drink the tea. Some people change their mind in the time it takes to boil the kettle"

Ok what the hell. This gives girls the message that it is annoying to change your mind. But why is it?! It is actually rude to accept a drink and then not drink it. It isn't rude to change your mind about sex. Confused metaphor! Also lots of people say yes or no to tea just to be polite. You should never feel like you have to do that with sex. Confused metaphor!!

The bit about them being unconscious is ok, but also - why can we not simply say hey boys, DO NOT RAPE UNCONSCIOUS GIRLS? What is this trivialising of rape?

"Whether it is tea or sex, consent is eveything."

Ok, no!! Consent is WAY MORE important with sex than tea!!! More trivialising.

ok this is without a doubt one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read on here.

ABSOLUTELY boys and girls should be taught about sex respectfully and not be made to feel like they have to do things if they’re uncomfortable. Times have moved on luckily and society can be more open than when you and I were children. and we must talk openly and honestly with both sexes to ensure they have realistic and respectful understandings and boundaries.


ABSOLUTELY NOT should you shout rape if a boy wants sex with you but does not rape you!

what kind of insanity is this?!

no rape isn’t always in the bushes being dragged off by strangers. NO a boy, man, husband should not continue if you say stop. But my lord making shit up does not make it true. It makes it a false allegation.

if you say stop. And a man continues to actually sexually assault you. Then please by all means go ahead.

I just watched this for the first time and I had the same thought as you on the part of “if they’re not sure, you can make the tea anyway just don’t force them to drink it”. I can’t think what that means apart from as you say, try it on with the girl until the girl says stop. Not sure that’s the right message

While I think it's brilliant that girls are being taught about consent (I'd like to hear a similar story about boys being taught the same), I agree with PP - rape is such a loaded word. Let's be accurate - "assault" would be better.

I've been teaching DS about consent since he was a toddler. Not sexual, obviously, but lots of talk about when it is okay to touch someone or not etc. I'm often looked at funny. But you know what? A parent at school took me aside one day to say that all the girls really liked DS because he was the only one who told the other boys off when they were "jokingly" touching the girls. So I'll take it.

No, that isn't rape. Using the term "rape" incorrectly could very well lead to more girls and women being accused of making false accusations.

Rather than saying "you are raping me", an alternative could be "you do not have my consent", or as a PP said, "you are assaulting me".

Nope. I’m certainly not going to be teaching that. What a dangerous incorrect message.

@2bazookas I don’t think they mean that if you’re kissing etc non-consensually that that’s rape. Rather that, even if you wanted to kiss/touch the boy initially, it at any point during sex you want to stop and they don’t want to, and then don’t, then that is rape.