To think this can't be legal (brand new vehicle)

[Wafflesnaffler]

My friend bought a new (2022 model) van from a Ford dealership 2 months ago. About 2 weeks ago she smashed the rear windscreen while reversing. Incidentally, it happened because the parking sensor was still in the yellow (rather than red, to indicate she was getting very close to the obstruction). Her insurance company can't get the windscreen replaced because there aren't any spares anywhere - Ford stopped production of these windscreens until further notice, due to "a quality control issue". Ford have said this is indefinite, they can't even give an estimated date when production will restart. This is her sole vehicle and she uses it to transport equipment needed for her job, so while she waits she's having to hire vehicles, borrow friends' vehicles, turn down certain jobs etc.

This doesn't sound legal to me. Surely an official dealership shouldn't be allowed to sell brand new vehicles which cannot be repaired if necessary (she's been told that some people are even having to have cars written off which should be repairable)? I'm not even talking about the potential issue of whether there's a fault with the rear windscreen or rear parking sensor.

AIBU to think that this sounds like it's in breach of some sort of consumer right? This is a brand new model, under warranty - shouldn't the dealership or manufacturer have to shoulder the burden of repercussions from the vehicle being unrepairable within 2 months of purchase, due to a quality control issue? Surely she shouldn't just be stuck with the damage to her livelihood, without any solutions being offered or accepted (courtesy vehicle/taking the rear windscreen out of another vehicle on the forecourt/whatever), when the whole reason she bought new was to feel safe and be hassle-free?

I'm not sure she'll have a leg to stand on. If she smashed a windscreen she must have been reversing at a fair speed and not looking where she was going (you still need to pay attention to your surroundings, regardless of parking sensors).

You say the insurers are having difficulty but has she approached Ford garages around her, companies like autoglass etc? The insurers will only be looking at official stock lists.

A good dealer would give you/them a courtesy vehicle.

Re the "amber" these sensors are never 100% as it depends on where the object is how big etc it is.

NB: Sensors work at bumper level and not van height screen levels and this appiles to cars/suv's

I have a merc GLS 21 plate has rev cams/sensors etc etc but I still have to be aware of my surroundings.

Ask the dealer to laon a free van, they may do.

Really she should have taken out business vehicle insurance that offers a courtesy vehicle/a solution to prevent loss of earnings. What's the point of it otherwise?

The replies you have got don’t really answer your question, she should look at the Honest John forum, they should be able to help.

Yes try that forum
A poster did say "business insurance" that was helpful

I've said that sensors often work at bumper height and not screen level height
I've suggested they speak with dealer for good will.

Yes, not ideal

OP - what van is and year model and I may be able to direct you to a screen via public link that you may ind helpful

In the meantime a sheet metal cover will keep her on the road. It will naturally eliminate her rear view but many trade vans have solid doors. Not great but one possible solution.

Highly doubt there is any law about this, but shaming Ford into acting might work - motoring press, sad face in Daily Heil etc?

Sounds like your friend needs driving lessons/get eyesight tested.

Supply chain problems are affecting ALL car OEMs.

Ford has little to gain by lying here. If there are no spares, its because there are NO spares.

Not sure why your friend cannot understand that?

Any chance a breaker could help? Insurance probably won't cover it, (they like brand new parts) but it might still be cheaper than losing work.

What model van is it? The parking sensors are there to go off when something is near at bumper level, not window level. Ie, at blind spots.
She can get the window boarded up as someone else has suggested.

Wow. If this was me I would be taking my van and sitting outside the Ford dealership exclaiming to everyone who walks in the door that the van I bought 2 months ago is now a write off because they don’t have any replacement windows.

I would actually expect full refund on the car and to go elsewhere.

Then you'd look like a right twat for buying a vehicle you're not able to drive. I've never heard of anyone smashing a window by reversing into something. She must have been reversing pretty damn quickly and paying absolutely no attention to her surroundings. I'd tell her I couldn't fix her vehicle too. Keep her off the road for as long as possible.

Wtf! So what if she smashed it.

Its a bloody commercial van. These things get broken into every 5 fucking minutes. It’s not fit for purpose.

You are asking the dealership/manufacturer to be responsible for having parts available or be held responsible for it. In the current climate that is ridiculous, but even normally that is impossible. Material shortages, energy shortages, parts shortages, manpower shortages, shipping delays etc etc etc.

The motor trade has some delays of more than 12 months for some items. A lot of parts that make up a Ford Transit etc are not actually manufactured by Ford. Bosch will make pumps. Blaupunkt will make in car entertainment etc etc. Did you know the majority of motor industry wiring looms are manufactured in Ukraine? There is a shortage for some reason at the moment. They are still catching up on deliveries for the ship canal blockage too.

So she needs a back glass. TBH most dealerships dont carry stock of glass. It would be ordered in. Then there is Ford supplied glass and spurious glass from another supplier which may not quite be as good. If it was me i would call around most of the main suppliers (Autoglass etc) plus i would google windscreen replacements for a few independants who may have stock. Bite the bullet, pay for it and send the invoice to the insurers to repay your friends bill (Probably not quite as cheap as normal cover). It may also effect her insurance renewal.

I just thought another option might be to replace the entire door, if they do one with a solid window.

Fabrication a fill in might be more expensive/difficult and from mates that have T5's it's easier to convert a window than the other way round.

Crap scenario though OP so hope your friend gets it sorted.

Van rear screens are notorious for being broken. The back end is inherently flat. Ie there is a little bit of bumper but not much else to protect the back end. The back end is also quite high (Window height). The amount of things that protrude out in car parks, for example a sign, that the reverse sensors would not pick up the base but by the time it does the sign has gone through the window.

I did it myself to a greater extent once. Caused £3k worth of damage. Reverse sensors working. Sign went through the back glass and just as the sensor went off the post dented the bumper and tailgate.

A broken window does not fall under any sort of guarantee, so the dealer has no requirement to replace it. Even if there was a requirement, there simply isn't any stock now, what can they do? It is unreasonable to think that they are in any way in the wrong.

Thank you for all these replies and opinions.

She hasn’t tried ringing around various repair companies (she’s only spoken with the one her insurer uses), so she can still try that. She's been told the problem is that the vehicle is so new, there aren't spares in circulation and manufacturing is shut down due to quality. The spare which keeps coming up, from the previous model, doesn't fit.

@RoseBucket Hadn’t heard of Honest John – thank you, she can try that

@Raul57 Thank you, it's a Ford Tourneo Connect 2022

@Lunar270 The metal plate would've been a great idea, which I hadn't thought of, but it turns out the window isn't flat...it's not a normal transit-type van but more of a car/van/people-carrier type thing. The full-door idea sounds possible - maybe that's an option for her.

@HelplessSoul I don’t believe they're lying about spares being available – I believe it’s true that there are none available.

It's not that I think the dealership or manufacturer are responsible for the fact that she broke the windscreen/her eyesight/whether she was paying attention etc it's that, when 2 months old, under warranty and a brand new model, I think most reasonable people would expect there to be options for repair or alternative transport until Ford’s problem is solved (it’s Ford’s quality control problem preventing the availability of spares, as opposed to something outside Ford’s responsibility or control like war, pandemic, materials shortages etc).

Thanks for all your replies, it sounds like there might not be a right or law she can refer to for help, but it's reasonable for her to press for a courtesy vehicle.

What do you actually expect ford to do though?
They haven't stopped manufacturing the rear windows for fun - it will also affect their ability to deliver on orders of new vehicles too - but it is a quality/performance issue, the part is simply not of usable/warrantyable quality so they cannot accept them into their supply chain/use them themselves or sell them on as spare parts. You'd be pissed off if a replacement screen cracked the first time it got cold/fell out if you went over 60mph or whatever the issue is then you'd have yet another insurance claim to make (as you'd have a hell of a job getting a manufacturer to cough up to a manufacturing fault

It's on her insurer to sort for her though

@Wafflesnaffler

"it's that, when 2 months old, under warranty and a brand new model, I think most reasonable people would expect there to be options for repair or alternative transport until Ford’s problem is solved"

Er, Ford does NOT have control or influence on its supply chain. Thats why they buy in components so they dont have to absorb the cost of making them themselves and thereby keeping costs down for end buyers.

Tell me, would Ford be to blame for your friend getting a puncture on the road or motorway?

No.

The same applies to the glass too. Your friend broke it - makes NO difference if the car is 2 months old or 2 hours old. The responsibility lies with your friend who caused the damage from her poor driving. Otherwise there'd be no need for this thread. The fault squarely lies with her.

Its not Ford's problem to fix, nor is it their problem that their suppliers/supply chain cannot provide said parts.

Your friend needs to phone around screen repair companies it maybe that they can cut glass from a similar model to fit.

The supply chain is literally fucked at the moment, I work in Niche automotive and we have 3m worth of cars waiting for parts.

So it could be why it is taking so long for Ford to sort.

I think you’re being completely reasonable. Spare parts are required to be available for a set time for household appliances (partly due to reducing consumption in an effort to tackle climate change and partly due to unscrupulous manufacturers deliberately stopping replacement parts to force you to buy a new device). The same should absolutely be the case for vehicles. It just isn’t okay (environmentally or financially) to have people needing to buy a brand new vehicle because they cannot replace a small component on a reasonably new vehicle. It’s easy to say she shouldn’t have crashed, but there will be people in the same boat whose glass was broken by thieves or vandals.

However, the way things should be is seldom the way things are. If the vehicle can’t be repaired by the insurance company it will have to be written off and she will have to get a new vehicle with the insurance payout. It’ll cost more in premiums (because the total value of the claim matters) but that cost will be less than buying a new vehicle herself or the cost of a personal injury claim if she’d hit a person.

The same applies to the glass too. Your friend broke it - makes NO difference if the car is 2 months old or 2 hours old. The responsibility lies with your friend who caused the damage from her poor driving.

In fairness that's not quite the same as getting a puncture. Most manufacturers will design a car primarily to make money from OEM parts as that's where a large proportion of their income comes from. Some manufacturers like Scania don't make much, if any money from cabs at all but make all of it from service and maintenance contracts.

The OP's friend isn't unreasonable to expect better after sales as Ford isn't a new kid on the block like Tesla and will have the entire after sales sorted.......under normal circumstances. That seems to be the issue really as the world is in turmoil. Therefore, she's just unfortunate more than anything else.

Regards to her driving, I personally don't rely on parking sensors, so the accident isn't great. But the circumstances are irrelevant to some extent as someone could've hit her from behind and she'd be in the exact same boat.

of course the inability to supply isnt illegal.

Bought shreddies in the supermarket last week, this week they have supply issues so there are none on the shelf.

no difference.

Why would it be illegal? its just the way it issometimes

I think most PPs haven't RTFT or understood your post OP

The model she bought is new out and ford have made it obsolete bf selling a van that you cannot get replacement back windows on. It's too new and unusual shape that there are no alternatives to ford manufacturered back windows for this model and they have stopped Pepsi uti on of it sue to a quality design issue. That makes me wonder if the window she had given it smashed so easily also had a quality design issue.
It's not a "production supply Brexit covid" issue that many car parts are facing, it's a Ford themselves have stopped production "due to their own quality" issues

They've made this model of van obsolete on a brand new model

No they should not be selling any model that has a window that cannot be replaced . I agree with you that there is some type of breach of contract and Legal matters topic board may be more helpful than AIBU (which is full of indignant MNers guessing)