Leave request

[Holidayhell22]

Hi
aI have name changed for this.
I just want some advice.
I requested a days leave over a month ago. It fitted in with the departments annual leave policy. I did exactly what it said on the tin, Checked how many people were off, booked a holiday, submitted my request. Line manger rejects my request because another colleague had just handed in their notice. They said if they filled her role by my leave date I would then be granted it. They interviewed for the job but decided the candidates just didn’t give the correct answers so didn’t score enough points ( I know).
Meanwhile on a day I had to work many staff(and managers ) were on leave, far more than allowed in the written policy.
Anyway I am thinking of going to HR about this.
Do you think I’m right?

Sorry I’m trying to be vague but the fact is, do you think HR will override my manager?

I would have thought policy would be to have any leave approved before booking the holiday, so I think you were unreasonable to book the holiday before submitting the request.

I doubt HR will override the manager when they have genuine staffing issues due to someone leaving. Maybe if you have cast iron proof that your department has successfully operated with that level of staffing before, when other people had their leave approved.

I think there is no way at all that HR would override a managers decision on a single leave request. If there is a track record of a department being unable to take leave because a manager keeps declining, then in that case, I think HR might have a word with them, but still not actually over ride.

I think a manager is allowed to make their own determination of what is needed for their department and other people being off in other teams is not relevant.

So based on your manager’s rationale unless they fill the post no one will ever be able to have leave, ridiculous. Unless it’s a time that’s protected (like postal workers can’t take leave in December) if no other staff are off you should be able to take the time.

So does the policy advise you to book leave before getting the time off approved? I have to get my manager to sign off on the dates before anything is booked.

HR unlikely to override this...

i think it’s unlikely that HR will override. Your manager has a good reason for refusing. For a manager (I am one), there’s often much more going on than the team are aware of. Some of the people who were on leave might have had really good reasons why they needed to be off then, but it’s not for the manager to share.
Plus, maybe they’ve helped out their manager, gone above and beyond, stepped up when needed. These people will inevitably find managers much more accommodating who may even cover their work personally on occasion if they feel that they owe them a favour. What’s your relationship like with your manager? Do you trust each other? That’s important. managers have to juggle a lot of demands and I think teams sometimes forget that reciprocity is the basis of almost all human relationships.

You haven’t got a leg to stand on. You can request leave but it can’t always be granted for the time you request. That’s normal and it’s been like that everywhere I’ve worked.

Just to be clear the policy states in writing to look on the staffing sheet. If only one person is off then go and book your holiday. Then put the request in which goes to the line manager they approve it and then HR are advised.
when ever any asks in person can I have time off on such and such a date the answer us always gave you checked the staffing rota?
The senior manager has said in meetings that this us the procedure
I have followed procedure.
Its not a case of who puts lots of effort in blah blah blah.
Just to add I am never off sick.
I am really angry and yes as it stands nobody is going to be allowed time off until the position is filled this will include school holidays and Christmas. Of course management are not affected……

I am going to be looking for another job as I’m not prepared to tolerate this.
They lose shed loads of staff.
Wisj I had just rung in sick to be honest like plenty of other staff do.

Are you sure you are not misreading it and it is saying that if the staffing sheet indicates nobody off you should book your holiday in the company system? Only it seems very odd that a company policy would actually tell you to go to the travel agent and book your holiday before even entering it into the system.

Are you confusing the idea of booking your holiday in the work system with the idea of booking travel? No employer would encourage people to book travel without first having their holiday approved - could you have confused these?

No, no confusion.
Holidays ARE a bone of contention where I work so the manager told us that this was the procedure. Booking an actual holiday would give you leverage to get it authorised. I know crazy?
But this was what they used to batter those who had NOT booked an actual holiday somewhere with.
It sounds bloody crazy writing it down but this episode what the manager decided.
I was even asked have I booked an actual holiday and where to.
I wanted to see if it is worth annoying the manager more by going above their head.
Especially as I will be asking for a reference as this has made by mind up that life is too short to tolerate this.

I can't believe that they tell you to book your holiday or event, actually commit to it and pay money, before asking for annual leave. That's not workable and I've never heard anything like it before. Checking the rota is a good start, to check for other absences but, as you have found, there are other reasons why leave might not be possible.

It is one day - is it for something very important? Since they didn't fill the vacancy, and you are confident that the department has successfully operated with those numbers before, it might be worth asking your manager again. I would, if it is an important day for you.

My work are really casual about booking leave. Aim for a time when there's minimal others already booked off, can request days off at short notice if something crops up.
But I would never actually book the holiday before putting in the request and getting it approved.