To be worried preschool staff are hurting my son?

[MyKidsDontGoToBed]

How worried would you be in this situation?

DS is 3. Speech delay. He has quite a good vocab but struggles to answer questions or make himself understood.

New preschool. Went to nursery before. He's settled in pretty well. It's attached to a private school and feels far more traditional and the staff seem more formal. But DS seems happy ish to go in the morning

End of last week DH saw the key worker do that thing where you pick the kid up by his arm and the kid kinda twists around. Basically dragging DS to where he was supposed to be.

DH said "if you saw a parent do it in a supermarket you'd think that was a parent having a rough day and it definitely wasnt completely ok but you wouldn't call social services"

DH didn't say anything

Today DS has a bruise on his arm. Roughly in the shape of a finger on his inner arm

When he came home from nursery with scraped knees I never questioned it. Kids fall over. But it's a really odd bruise in terms of shape and position.

The thing is DS is running in every morning. I have asked DS but he just ignores me, giggles etc

I will obviously ask them tomorrow but they are going to say they don't know or he fell over or whatever and I don't know if whatever they say I'll feel like taking him out.

But am I being a crazy mum?"

Your DH is confusing the two issues.
The bruise is unconnected to how pissed off he should be about the dragging. Whether that caused the bruise or not is a moot point. He witnessed someone roughly handle his child. He ought to be livid.

@CallMeLinda well the bruise indicates that this possibly isn't one incident of someone getting frustrated but that grabbing kids by their arms is a routine/pattern.

Of course the incident on Thursday didn't cause this bruise. My worry is DS has been grabbed again today.

DH is going to talk to them first thing tomorrow. My younger DS is due to start in the nursery at same school in a few weeks. Fuck fuck. I have to have childcare. My salary pays the mortgage.

I just can't believe this is going on. My head keeps saying I'm making a fuss but the evidence is right in front of me no??

Your not crazy. Your husband should have said something when he saw it happen. I would make a comment like ds keeps grabbing his toys or me by the arm has something happened? Make them aware you know something is off in a way that says you know but are not going to say without proof.

In my head I'd want to wait for that woman after work and rag her around like she did my son. But realistically, I would report it.
How dare she man handle your little boy like that!!

This would really upset me. Hope you're ok op.xx

Glad your DH is going to speak to them. It must have been awful for both of you to either witness or hear about. I actually think the not saying anything at the time is normal- I think I would kind of freeze and just want to get DS out of there. I think it would only be once away from it I would start to really react IYKWIM?
You are not making a fuss, you are protecting your child.

Definitely not making a fuss. Definitely ask to see CCTV and a meeting with the manager. I feel your son is not safe there and he needs to be removed immediately. Again, so sorry you are going through this.

That is an unusual place for a bruise. The staff shouldn’t be dragging the children by their arms.

i don't want to seem judgemental but even if a parent was physically dragging their kid by the arm and swinging a distressed child around i'd be bloody concerned that's for sure, if a professional did it i'd be going nuclear i don't care if that seems unreasonable they have a duty of care but a lot of teachers/nursery staff think they can get away with abusing kids who are non verbal or disabled in some way and it's not on

This is what's so upsetting. Are they grabbing him because they know he'd struggle to tell me? I said "do you like xxx"? (Key worker name) and he said "yes" but he doesn't have any grasp really. I can't even be sure he knows her name properly.

DH talking to them today.

His key worker has been so moody from the start. DS went to cuddle her in the morning last week and I saw her kind of grimace. She didn't cuddle him back.

I think my DM thinks I'm being precious and said "the reality is nobody loves DS like you do and that's ok". She thinks I'm soft on him.

I feel so guilty about having to work so much. We pay so much to have both DS in childcare to work as we think that's the best decision for the family's future but God...this doesn't feel right at all.

I sent the pic of the bruise to a friend and she said "they would have had to grab him so hard to make that bruise. It won't be that. He'll have bashed it on something"

His key worker has been so moody from the start. DS went to cuddle her in the morning last week and I saw her kind of grimace. She didn't cuddle him back.
I think my DM thinks I'm being precious and said "the reality is nobody loves DS like you do and that's ok". She thinks I'm soft on him.

This is so sad. If she’ll do these things right in front of you I would worry about how she treats him when you’re not there. And your DM is kind of wrong - of course we don’t love your child like you do (same way nobody could love my kids like I do) but we do treat them with love and care. Dragging a child around and refusing to return a cuddle is a long way away from not having a mother’s love for the child. I would never grimace away from a child’s cuddle, I always return a cuddle massively so the child will feel comfortable coming to
me again.

I hadn’t seen the photo before I posted previously. I thought you meant on the inner of his upper arm not the lower arm, where bruises rarely occur. The lower arm is more likely to bruise accidentally. My granddaughter gets them from playing with her Paw Patrol tower, she reaches across for a Pup then forgets she’s opened a gate or something on it then bashes her arm on it.
The nursery worker shouldn’t have been dragging or pulling him though so it’s needs addressing.

If I thought there was even a hint that my child was being hurt by a member of staff they would never, ever be going back there.

It's a single bruise. You'd need some talent to grab a child with one finger.

I think I'd tend to agree with your friend on this occasion. It's a single bruise. If a full hand was used to grab tightly you'd have more than just one bruise. There would be a bruise the other side from the thumb too. I'm more inclined to think he's knocked himself looking at the picture.

Where on the inner arm is the bruise? If its upper inner arm thats a red flag with regards to safeguarding, it was mentioned on my last sg course

Ignore last post, just caught up.

I don't think that bruise is from being grabbed. Think how hard they'd have had to press to make that. He'd have other marks from their thumb or other fingers.

I think that bruise was more likely caused by bashing it on something, but you still need to discuss what happened, which I know your DH is.

Good luck.

To me the bruise looks more like he banged his arm on his desk or something - it’s beautifully straight.

If he had been grabbed I would expect to see more than one single bruise - hands have four fingers and a thumb. I have experienced ‘grab’ bruising myself and it was actually the fingertips that did the bruising as they dug in - so ended up with 4 ‘dot’ bruises finger spaced apart and a corresponding larger oval thumb bruise.

However, none of that matters when you have witnessed your son being treated in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. You don’t need to justify it, your instincts are telling you something and I would listen to them. They don’t have to be physically harming him - the casual indifference you describe towards a young child is enough would be enough in itself for me to lose my trust - pair that with the manhandling witnessed by your husband and I’d be thinking ‘nope’.

I work with children with special needs and on occasion we have to lift/ restrain a child from hurting us/ other kids. We are all very aware of how to do it effectively without harming the child at all but from a distance I think it could look difficult. Certainly have never left bruises on children tho they have bitten, scratched me 🤣

I work with sen children in eyfs/ks1. You're absolutely not allowed to put your hands on a child unless it is to prevent them from harming themselves, and even in that circumstance the staff member handling the child should have had restraint training, which would never involve holding a child up by the arm or with enough force to cause bruising!! X

I think you should still raise what your husband saw, as it's not acceptable, but that bruise doesn't look like it came from a hand to me. My son often has bruises in that area from playing with toys, running into things or even leaning on the edges of things. I thought you meant the inner of his upper arm which would be far less likely to accidentally bruise. I also think if it was from a grab, there would be bruises from the thumb and other fingers. It would be really strange for only one finger to cause a bruise so clearly like that.

That's not a grab bruise though! Who grabs anyone with one finger? My DD was grabbed really hard by another child at primary school and it left finger print size bruises not a single finger shaped bruise.

The fact that you've immediately jumped to that conclusion plus seeing how cold his key worker was with him shows how unhappy you are with the nursery. Is there somewhere else you can move him to?