To pull DS from new nursery

[Whisperedew]

His last nursery was amazing, unfortunately just got too expensive and now he’s older I thought a community nursery attached to a pre school would be better and help him become independent. he’s 3.5. They were OFSTED rated good 5 years ago. 25 kids in one room, so much like reception. He goes 3 hours a morning
he’s been there over a week now, was wearing pants last week but had an accident (weed himself) every day which is odd for him as he never has accidents anymore. On tapestry there’s an image of him playing with the other kids and his clothes are soaked.
ive put him in nappy pants this week and told them because I was worried about him sitting there soaked, I’ve picked him up and his nappy is full of poo.
0 communication from the nursery, they point to the parents at pick up time. Kids have to walk in themselves.
His water bottle has remained untouched everyday and left or put in his bag. As soon as I pick him up he asks for a drink so I get it out his bag.
Picked him up today and It’s pissing it down and his coat was left in his bag.
The main thing is communication though, he’s just had his first week and they can’t even come out and talk to me and let me know how he got on

[deedledeedledum]

@Needmorelego

@deedledeedledum no they will help the children change their clothes and clean themselves up - they don't leave them !!
When my daughter was in Nursery Class and Reception everyone was expected to have a spare pair of clothes (usually just undies and trackie bottoms) in case of accidents and there was a constant supply of spare pants (and sometimes tights) available.

But it doesn't sound like this is happening here. OPs dc seems to be left sitting in wet clothes and coming home in them

[Needmorelego]

The OP didn't say he came home wet - only that one of the photo had him wet. It could have been that they took the picture and then realised and them helped him change into dry clothes.
So we don't know. If he was coming home wet then that is bad and the OP should definitely talk to the school.
@Whisperedew have you sent him with spare clothes? If not take a bag so they always have something clean for him (this was required at my daughters primary for the Nursery Class and recommend for the Reception Class).
Also does your child understand he might need to ask to go to the toilet? Does he know who is the correct person to ask? Does he know where the toilets are?

[surreygirl1987]

No way. Sounds awful.

[PurplePansy05]

On the fence with this one. If it's a school nursery and he's 3/3+ then tbh in my area they require kids to be fully toilet trained. Did they not say kids are not supposed to come in wearing nappies?

My DS is not in a school nursery yet, but mum friends tell me it is certainly less hands on approach from staff than in a private day nursery.

I'd have a problem with my child being left in a soiled nappy or clothes for a while and I'd definitely struggle with poor communication from them. If I couldn't trust them, that would be a deal breaker to me personally.

[Whisperedew]

@PurplePansy05 they asked when he joined if he wore nappies or went to the toilet, so I assumed they wouldn’t have an issue with him wearing pull ups

cant find the poster who asked what room he’s in. The 2 / 3 / 4 year olds are all in one room

[Whisperedew]

@Needmorelego he has used their toilet once (wee) they’ve said they put him on it every half hour which I don’t believe… he won’t go himself he has to be asked and taken there which I told them about when he started
he didn’t come home wet it was in the photo
i always put 2 sets of clothes in his bag, jacket, sun hat

[Whisperedew]

I just don’t understand how some parents are ok with only knowing once a week what their child’s been doing? Is it because I’m a first time parent?

[Italiangreyhound]

I'd find a better place.

That place doesn't sound good.

[Ladybyrd]

Just change. If you have that instinct, I would go with it. Ours has gone from great, to ok, to awful. Everyday I'm picking my daughter up, covered in paint, lunch, everything - absolutely filthy. She doesn't want to go in anymore, and that's the last straw for me. And it's extremely expensive, and doesn't have a good Ofsted rating, anymore, I've just discovered.

I didn't even know who her new key worker was since she moved groups, over a month ago, until she decided to introduce herself yesterday. We already have an appointment to view a new nursery tomorrow, and will be getting her out as soon as we can.

[FlounderingFruitcake]

@Whisperedew

I just don’t understand how some parents are ok with only knowing once a week what their child’s been doing? Is it because I’m a first time parent?

Last year of nursery, especially if at a preschool, is essentially prep for school where you definitely won’t be getting those sort of updates so I always thought of it as a gradual transition. Also at 3+ and presuming no SEN they can tell you a lot themselves, and can definitely tell you if they had fun. So I was always fine to wait until Friday to find out that they painted leaves on Tuesday or whatever. If you trust the nursery and have a happy child it should be a complete non issue, obviously that’s not the case for you though.

[PurplePansy05]

@FlounderingFruitcake

Last year of nursery, especially if at a preschool, is essentially prep for school where you definitely won’t be getting those sort of updates so I always thought of it as a gradual transition. Also at 3+ and presuming no SEN they can tell you a lot themselves, and can definitely tell you if they had fun. So I was always fine to wait until Friday to find out that they painted leaves on Tuesday or whatever. If you trust the nursery and have a happy child it should be a complete non issue, obviously that’s not the case for you though.

My thoughts exactly.

I don't quite understand how you have 2, 3 and 4 yo in one room in a school nursery either. It's just not how it works?

And I don't understand some people's comments above about school nursery being expensive, if it's a state school nursery, it's free?? Do you ladies mean the wraparound care?

Anyway, as pps said, if your DC is more and more stressed and you don't trust them then there's your answer. Perhaps arrange a meeting with them first and discuss the issues?

[Pigsinmuck]

My DD attends a preschool where the set up sounds similar. Children age 2-4 all in one room as that’s all the have. They do change nappies as most 2 year olds are still in them. They also help with toileting. We do get a personal handover at the end of the day, just a few minutes of how they have got on.

There are up to 25 in my DD setting with 5 staff.

I don’t think it’s the setting design that’s the issue, it’s the staff.

I would ask for an appointment with the manager. Talk about your concern and let them answer you. If you still don’t have confidence in their abilities to care for him then pull him out.

[Thissucksmonkeynuts]

Please address these issues with the setting before you take him out. This neglect of their care needs to be on the record.
Ds went to a school nursery, although smaller and they took good care of him, including changing wet and dirty pull ups. They supported toilet training with all children, including ds who is delayed. If you want to know more about the law on this, the ERIC charity website is a good one.

[olympicsrock]

This sounds just like a reception class and they sre preparing the children for school next year. You definitely don’t get the daily updates/ handover like you do in a nursery. I used to wait a few minutes after they had all been collected for a chat or send an email. This might happen once a week for the first month.

Regarding the toilet issue, it is early days and very common for children of 3/4 to have accidents when they don’t know where the toilet is.

it sounds like DS is behind his peers in his toileting and needs to be able to go to the toilet himself. It will all have been far too exciting this week. Putting him in a nappy was a mistake. Put him back in pants. See how it goes for another week . You never know , he may flourish.
At 3.5, he should be self toileting, get dressed , get himself a drink if thirsty, get his coat out of his bag etc.

[NotAHouse]

This is not normal, at all.

[Whoopsies]

My son had just started at a school nursery, he's just turned 3. They great us on the door every pick up and drop off and let me know how his day has been. They upload photos every day on their app to show me what he's been doing, I can also message his key worker on there and she always replies. They will help them go to the toilets and also change their nappies if needed. They take from 2 and will encourage potty training, but will change them as necessary. All of that is a minimum for me. I have met all the staff there already and they all seem lovely. My son is very clingy but has settled in there immediately. I don't think yabu by expecting better. (and he is my 2nd, I'm not precious at all but I wouldn't take any less)

[Bunnycat101]

There are countless posts on mumsnet about this sort of set-up bring a bit uncaring. I still think 3yos generally need a higher ratio and more care than some of the school nurseries seem to provide. Obviously there are some great ones as a few posters have mentioned but they are still so little.

[Needmorelego]

@Bunnycat101 I think people do need to realise there is a difference between 'school' nursery and 'daycare' nursery even for children who are the same age (ie 3).
School Nursery Class (3-4 year olds) the children don't have a 'Key Worker' they have a class teacher plus some teaching assistants. They don't have a big end-of-day-handover where you get a rundown of what they have been doing all day - you get details from things like Tapestry and a parent's evening once a term.
It's two different style of environments.
People need to know this when they decide where to send their children.
Nursery School is not daycare.
The OPs set up sounds odd if 2 year olds are in the same room so I do think she needs to talk to them about what style they are actually offering. The fact she said he was changed into dry clothes is very very normal for Nursery Class (and Reception) especially during the early weeks. The children should be toilet trained and toilet independent but the staff expect lots of accidents. They happen. All the time.

[Whisperedew]

@FlounderingFruitcake this is what is keeping me from pulling him out. He needs to learn independence now or he will struggle next year

@PurplePansy05 it’s completely free

@Pigsinmuck that does sound like the one my ds goes to

I know what they’re offering, I have lots of memories of being in nursery myself and it was a similar style. But is there not minimum level of care that should be expected? Yes he is behind on toileting, but his speech is really good and he’s beyond in his development in everything else. I still don’t see how a 3 year old, or even a 4 and 5 year old would be able to take their clothes off and put them on. He probably doesn’t even know where his drink is when it gets dumped in his bag and put in a corner. He would say he’s cold and wants a jacket but wouldn’t get it himself

[Whisperedew]

This is a room where 2 year olds are too, are they also expected to do all that?

[Needmorelego]

@Whisperedew From what you have now said it doesn't sound good.
His coat and bag (and drink) should be on a named peg or cubby. He should have been shown where this is. Sometimes they have a picture as well as the name because "your peg has the blue flower" can be easier to recognise than the name. He should have been told "if you need your coat or a drink this is where it will be".
If they are actually "dumping them in a corner" then that's bad.
3-5 year olds should be beginning to be able to dress themselves but nurseries/reception teachers should help if needed. Some of the early PE lessons in Reception are more about the art of changing into PE kits than actual sports.
They often turn getting dressed into a game so the children are learning how to do it.
But no - I wouldn't be expecting 2 year olds to be doing this. Are the 2 year olds literally in the same room? If yes then it isn't really a EYFS nursery.
Doesn't sound good the more you say.

[GreenRainbowSun]

My child's nursery set-up is similar with all ages in one room from 2 up.

We go inside to pick him up so always get short update of some kind there. My son seems very happy which is main thing. They provide the drink and snacks and change of clothes if needed. He has nappies and that's not an issue - he couldn't dress himself fully either. No idea of the ratio but there are always seem to be almost as many staff as children...

If I got a bad vibe like you though I would probably take him out unless needed the childcare. Is it worth trying to speak to them first in case they can reassure you?

[Whisperedew]

@Needmorelego there’s a pic on tapestry with the bags in the background. They’re all piled on top of each other.
yes they only have one room, and an outside area

[Needmorelego]

Doesn't sound very good then @Whisperedew .
I would look for a different place.

[Needmorelego]

Also if they are marketing it as a Nursery Class within the EYFS (ie Foundation Stage One 3 - 4 year olds. Reception is Foundation Stage Two) then it clearly isn't if there are 2 year olds.
I would perhaps report to Ofsted if that's the case.