Our DDs in particular need to understand marital contracts

[autocollantes]

I have a DS too and want him also to know, but given how things seem to work post kids, DDs are the priority.

When we get married we're not encouraged to think of the contract as much more than a legal document binding us together in love. Which is nice, but nonsense in the cold hard reality of life.

My DH is Catholic and we had to do a "marriage preparation" course (it wasn't that bad, just talking about what we expected in different areas of marriage). Before we have children we're encouraged to do birth preparation courses of some sort to educate ourselves and to read books to educate ourselves about baby's development.

But before we get married and sign what could be the most important document of our lives, there's NO INFORMATION.

AIBU that we need to teach our DDs - children - what a marriage contract contains, what it means for their rights during marriage and their rights in divorce? And that this needs to be done long before they're in a serious relationship.

I'd even go further and say that this education should be provided by the experts, who are divorce lawyers. In hindsight, now that I'm trying to divorce, I wish I'd been informed about all of this by someone knowledgable about what can go wrong. Knowing what it all means when everything is going well is actually useless - you don't usually need to protect yourself when everything is good!

There's sooo much I didn't know about what was involved and what the legal process itself entails. It's been an "in at the deep end" education. But for my lawyer, some if it appears to be "common sense". I absolutely agree about that, IF you know the legal system, how contracts work etc. The absolute worst way to learn about the law and your rights is via divorce.

So, anybody agree, or AIBU?

We have taught our dd from
the beginning that marriage is the legal contract that allows the state to recognize the partnership you are forming. It’s an incredibly important contract. It can mean losing some money in a divorce, as I did from my first marriage, but it helps to spread the risk of childbearing to both parties. That risk mitigation makes it essential for choosing the co-parenting path. Two people could easily just live together or have a marriage blessing without the license if love is all that mattered.

I don’t understand why people put more emphasis on their DD’s rather than their DS’s.

They all need taught these things, but if we want things to change for girls going forward then we need to teach our sons how to treat them.

And we need to hold them to account for it.

I think we should teach them more about the dangers of having children (in particular giving up own careers to be SAHM) when not married

Both should be taught for sure.

I suppose with daughters, it's them that so the childbearing and them that usually get screwed over.

I suppose I will try to help my daughter to pick the father of her children wisely.

Yeah but I agree, if the issue is divorce it's not a woman thing only. The party most likely to suffer negatively from having been married (as opposed to the exact same relationship/circumstances unmarried) is the higher earner, which is normally (but not always - myself included) the man.

Men and boys need educating too. How many posts on here involve men who didn't realise that they could be added to a birth certificate or that they can self rep and get a Child Arrangement Order? How many think that Child Maintenance is a legal obligation and not an attempt at gold digging? How many men agree to their wife being a SAHM then don't realise that this might make it harder to leave or that it could affect them in a divorce?

Both sexes need to know about myths like
common law marriage and the potential implications of having a partner move in or marrying a partner with a much lower income etc

Exactly. Why do people expect to be spoon fed everything?

if you’re an adult and mentally competent to sign a contract, then it is your responsibility to ensure you understand the implications of that.

Definitely. You’re at risk if you have kids with him and aren’t married and don’t work. You won’t be on the mortgage either without an income. So many women think they are “common law” or “he wouldn’t do that”.

I too would like to know what it is you didn't understand until recently about the legal ramifications of marriage?

It’s much more important to teach girls the dangers of NOT getting married - the risk of becoming homeless and penniless if their unmarried partner throws them out of the house to which they have no entitlement if it was solely in his name. The danger of being a sahm with no independent source of income. The problem of not being legally recognised as next of kin. The fact of not having inheritance tax exemption if their non married spouse dies. Etc.

I think parents have to teach this to their kids, schools can't get into this as 'marriage' is a loaded topic.

I think it's pretty obvious that marriage essentially means "what's mine is yours" -it's a business transaction. If you aren't prepared to do that (and I am not) don't get married (I haven't).

I've been away but will try to remember the questions.

What did I learn? Well I was married abroad so I'm learning lot the hard way. Basically that in divorce both parties are only really equal if they have similar paying jobs and do childcare 50-50. Being a SAHM - through coercive control in my cane, not voluntarily - means you're hugely vulnerable for a long time. My STBX will have the life we have now, more or less, while I'll be lucky to get social housing (I probably won't).

I learned that "what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine" isn't true. There are marriage contracts that separate premarital assets from those acquired during the marriage. What's mine before marriage therefore remains mine forever and I don't ever have to spend that money or have it considered during divorce proceedings. So that there is already a division in the contract. One I happen not to have a problem with, however, it's not possible to pretend that it's a 100% Union if one party is independently wealthy and chooses to retain that wealth separate to the marriage, while the marriage financially could do with some help.

Boys need to know too. Like I said first of all. BUT until men are taking the same paternity leave as women and women don't suffer pregnancies in which they're on bed rest/signed off work for months then there's always an inherent imbalance on how both parties are likely to be able to contribute PLUS their future earning potential. That's why it's important for girls to know.

I agree btw about other contracts, especially mortgages, being incredibly important too. For those I see the need to understand as being equal between the sexes. I was posting about marriage contracts though as the post was long enough!

"Schools have enough to do"
They do. I agree. But who then teaches ALL children these things? Or is it only to be taught to the children lucky enough to be born to parents who know it all? My parents certainly didn't and I've ended up completely broken (and very likely broke) as a direct result.

"Parents should teach children about relationships and not contracts regarding marriage"
a) as above.
b) but there is a legal contract signed. Or it's not marriage. That's a religious marriage and it holds no legal weight. Again it's not actually that important while things are going well. When you start to meet (and pay for) a lawyer though due to divorce, then you'll notice that it's a legal document and the exact wording is extremely important. If everybody behaved properly in relationships and everybody was perky matched, sure, there'd be no divorces, but the reality is that there are people who lie to, cheat on, steal, and abuse their spouse as well as lovely people who are simply mismatched. For them all, teaching children to behave better in relationships is too late and also unlikely to reduce divorce in the future. Also, who teaches them? Obviously not school, so again those who were born lucky in the family department remain so and the rest are essentially scuppered.

I completely agree.

There needs to be more information regarding the financial implications of marrying.

Prince Charming is all well and good but let's face it, he ain't gonna pay the mortgage and feed the kids once you divorce

I tell my sons not to get married and my daughter to get married if she is going to have kids.
That's about all that they need really

But who then teaches ALL children these things?

Great question. Many answers!

I'll start with internalized misogyny.

I.E. Couple walk into a car showroom, salesman only talks to the woman.

The relationships and divorce boards are full of people who don't know how to go about getting divorced and don't really know what their rights are in divorce, or what to expect from the legal process, or how screwed they can be as a SAHM who suddenly is expected to enter the workplace. I can guarantee they all knew the order of service for their wedding ceremony though, even if they're not regular churchgoers.

If you know all those things before getting married, then I'm pretty certain you're a lucky anomaly.

Not one of my friends who hasn't been divorced, or seen a close friend/relative go through it has any real idea of what the breaking up of the legal contract entails. I'm sure my friends aren't the anomaly in this!

btw (sorry more!) I also agree that girls need to know the risks of having children without being married.

This is a clear example of when girls need to be taught something and boys should know it, but at the end of the day, the potential suffering caused by not knowing this is unequal between the sexes.

Anyway, my kids are some of the lucky ones, because their DM will be making sure they know all of this as they get older. Doesn't help the little girls out there who have a similar childhood and parents to me though, does it?

Yeah i agree. Taught to both boys and girls. Also the SAHP situation too and what that means for finance if you split etc.

actually i think knowing this info may mean less people get married in the first place

If you are the richer high earning partner you shouldn't get married and if you are the poorer one you should. Women should avoid having kids unmarried. That's all you need to know really.

I agree OP, but not just marriage I think kids should be taught about cohabitation agreements, pre-nuptial agreements, wills and the effect marriage has on assets, what happens in a divorce, registering a child, maintenance etc. We focus on the relationship but not on the legal effect of what people are doing, and then wonder why people make poor choices, or put themselves into poor financial positions.

This is what I don’t understand - why tell your son not to get married?

Mine have been told/taught how vulnerable their partner would be if she gave up her job unmarried to have kids. The impact on her pension and the likes. At no point were they told “don’t get married”.

Then again mine are lucky. They’ve seen my girls Dad turn into a non paying NRP who has no relationship with his daughters, and they’ve seen his parents roundly criticise him for it and they know if they treated the mother of their children like shit I’d be exactly the same.

But in the situation given you'd be far worse off if you hadn't married. The issue isn't needing to teach about the marriage contract but that children need to understand that choosing to become a SAHparent / merging finances with another person is inherently risky. Some of your statements also aren't always correct / only apply to short marriages eg pre marital assets absolutely can be in the pot in some situations.

I don't think you need to teach that marriage is difficult to dissolve specifically. I do think there should be more education on how to ensure you are not financially vulnerable if a relationship breaks down BUT in reality I'm not sure doing one HPSE lesson on this at age 14 is going to make a difference - all this information is out there and the people who haven't accessed it on their own won't have been listening to it at school. The reality is when two people love each other all sense often goes out the window. It's hard for me to comment though because I don't remember ever having to be taught this - to me it's just obvious that relying financially on someone else is risky and you need to protect yourself. The real issue, to me anyway, is the myth of 'common law marriage'. That's what really gets people into trouble. I don't know how you fix this.

Boys also need to know the risks of having children without being married btw.

Exactly! And I wholeheartedly disagree that women are at some disadvantage in life and men have some secret knowledge and power over this. No. You are a grown adult entering into a marriage, do your own research and make wise decisions. The number of women who set themselves up poorly without any thought or responsibility towards themselves is shocking. There is more information easily accessible today than there ever was, so take the responsibility and accountability to do that.