You can not have a monarchy without God in the picture - AIBU

[KohinoorDiamond]

If I remember correctly, there’s something about this in the OT before King David is appointed. God expresses concern that monarchy becomes idolatry and the people forget their covenant is actually with God, not a fellow mortal claiming to be ‘special’. However, monarchy has its symbolic uses to God, so it’s permissible on conditions of divine authority.

God has always been symbolic, rarely literal. I’d argue the symbolic connection remains between God and monarchy (constitutional or otherwise).


The symbolism of the Crown is that the monarch is saying they’re Head of State, but that God is above them and their Head. Divine appointment etc.


Monarchy without God is harder to justify. Yet so many people don’t believe in God, especially when compared to the last coronation, 70 years ago.

God comes in the monarchy package deal. Tough luck…

You can not have a monarchy without God in the picture - AIBU

No CoS is independent of the CoE and not part of the Anglican church.

Correct my if I'm wrong but the Anglicans have King as head, and a highrachy (bishops etc)

CoS has an ordinary minister voted as Moderator for a year. No highrachy. Very flat structure.

I don’t understand half of this. How can you be head of Presbyterian church and Anglican - isn’t Presbyterian a subsection of the Anglican Church.

No. Non-conformist churches like Methodist or Presbyterian are separate from Anglicanism. The Church of Scotland is, however, Anglican, as is the Church of Australia and others.

I thought Anglican was an umbrella term for all the Protestant faiths.

No. Anglicanism is a fairly narrow remit, established during the reformation when England overthrew Catholicism. Most Protestant denominations fall outside this - most denominations on the continent which are not Orthodox Christianity are Lutheran.

Also the Anglican now seems to consider itself Catholic. How does that fit in to it.

The Anglican creed states a belief in one catholic and apostolic church but that's catholic with a small 'c', simply meaning 'one and whole'. Completely separate thing from Roman Catholicism (even though High Anglicanism looks pretty much identical).

Not that I have any truck with any of it. As I grow older, I'm becoming increasingly pagan 😀

I understand that the COS have no links with the OO but proclaiming Protestantism is the one true religion comes across as very sectarian in this day and age.

I thought Anglican was an umbrella term for all the Protestant faiths ( Presbyterian, Evangelical, Methodist).

No the other way round. Protestant is the umbrella term for non-Roman Catholic churches. They Protested against Rome.

How would you like them to word a vow to protect the CoS, and the Church's rights that are enshrined in law in Scotland - that probably date from the reformation?

What's High Angicanism?

When Charles talked about being the Defender of faiths in the past I thought he meant he would defend peoples rights to follow any faiths, not just Christian, so as a UK citizen, you could be under his protection, as a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sihk, Pagan etc. I am disappointed, especially as he seemed so pally with the Dalai lama.

Also known as Anglo Catholic. Older, more traditional facet of the CofE as practised in some of the bigger cathedrals and whose services sound quite different from 'low church'. Basically it's doctrinally conservative, but reasonably socially liberal (as Christianity goes). The CofE is a very fragmented, mixed bag and can vary greatly from one church to the next.

I don't believe in gods or agree with the monarchy, but I don't see any particular reason why a monarchy is any more unreasonable with god than without god.

the church of Scotland is Presbyterian not Anglican; the branch of the Anglican church in Scotland is called the Episcopal church of Scotland, there is no link in terms of church government between presbyterianishm and anglicanism
presbyterianism is governed from the bottom up not the top down ie each church/ congregation is governed by the local elders ( kirk session) of which the minister is one ( the preaching elder) the minister only has one vote in the kirk session, under the elders are deacons both elders and deacons are appointed by congregational voting of communicant members , the congregation choose their own minister they are not appointed centrally
each large area is a presbytery and one elder and the minster from each congregation is a member of the presbytery, from there a proportion meet once a year as part of the synod or general assembly, a moderator is appointed each year usually someone who has been a minister at least 25 years. the synod and church offices run the finances and pension plan and salaries but each congregation is largely autonomous within the framework and has control of it's own money above the % that is sent centrally to pay wages etc
The offical guide to theology and doctrine is the westminister confession of 1689
there are many similarities in beliefs they both believe the nicene creed are trinitarians believe in infant baptism, there are differences in communion where the bread and wine are viewed as symbols only, and communion is generally only monthly though often in more rural areas it was a once or twice a year thing. In general services are more simple and plain and certainly historically there was a greater emphasis on preaching than on singing etc, as was seen in the service yesterday the psalms are incorporated into almost every service
Decoration is simpler there maybe a cross but not a crucifix there are no images or icons

@MarieIVanArkleStinks the Church of Scotland is not Anglican it is presbyterian which is not a branch of Anglicanism the Church of Wales and the Church of Ireland are Anglican

Learned something new! I thought it was; I'm wrong. Thanks for clarifying, I found that post really interesting.

I don't see the Monarch as a go-between earth and God, more a person charged with making sure "the Faith" ie Protestant church, with all its denominations. continues under his reign. He is head of the CofE.

The Grace of God is just a blessing in my opinion.

It's a shame it's the only faith he's a defender of, but that's the constitution.

He's not got Divine Rights etc. it's a role inherited from his mother.

@TeacupDrama thank-you for your post. And deeper understanding of the CoS. I was raised CoS but am pretty agnostic, I believe in the creator god but not sure what else.
My knowledge of Scottish history is sadly lacking. A long time ago I was working on one of the famous churches I asked why the building beside it had become a ruin the historians mentioned the reformation I had a wtf moment 😳 and needed to go read.

“The Grace of God is just a blessing in my opinion.”

A blessing from who? God?

“He's not got Divine Rights etc. it's a role inherited from his mother.“

By divine birthright…

He’s not sharing this inheritance with his siblings. This is a very different kind of inheritance.

He was born to a monarch as next in line to the throne…. His destiny had be predetermined while still in the womb.

Is Charles the Head of CofE or the wider Anglican church

just the church of England the archbishop of canterbury is head of the wider Anglican community

@MarieIVanArkleStinks and @Dinoteeth I could explain more but am going out tonight but feel free to ask me more

@TeacupDrama Really!
I thought the King / Queen was higher than all the Archbishops 🤯 You've blew my brains.

As I say my background is CoS so I barely understand the highrachy thing.

Thank-you for your answers.

Thanks everyone.

it is very confusing😖

Charles making that proclamation about the Protestant faith is pretty much the same as Rangers fans singing about the Battle of The Boyne and shouting 1690.

Except that Charles, whatever other faults he may have, has never got tanked up on Buckfast wine and stabbed a Catholic.

As far as I know.

No, of course, he has not but that proclamation is a huge political statement that will upset a lot of people.