To think Dentists are greedy and disgrace

[Thisismynamenow]

I have a hole in my tooth (thanks pregnancy for the poor teeth!)

My nhs dentist has apparentpy cancelled their nhs contract to go private (without telling patients) and not a single dentist within 20 miles is willing to take on nhs, but everyone can offer same day private appointments.

I know the nhs is underfunded but it's disgusting dentists are allowed to be only private, they should be made to be half nhs!

My tooth is killing me, I can't afford the £400 I've been quoted for the filling (it's a tiny hole, literally a pin hole!) And the hopsitall will only pull it which I don't want. Its annoying me more as i currently have a maternity exemption which I can't use.

Aibu to think dentists are greedy, and that it shouldn't be allowed?

Yes they can completely hand back their NHS contract if they want and many are doing just this.

Me and my DC haven’t seen a dentist in 4 years as we’re still on the NHS waiting list.

I had an abscess which grew so big that it broke one of my teeth in half and now cuts into my cheek and made one of my teeth fall out completely - no dentist will see me because it’s not classed as emergency and I can’t afford private fees.

My DDs teeth are growing crooked but again we can’t get them checked out.

It’s really bad but I don’t blame the dentists as there’s a reason why they don’t take on NHS patients.

I agree! OP don't direct your anger at dentists, direct your anger at the goverment and if you want to complain then complain to NHS England. If you went to work and they turned around and offered you a new contract but with less money but more work would you accept it? No you wouldn't.

I think you're spoilt by the NHS, you dont realise the real costs of these activities and so when given a bill for the treatment put the blame on the people offering the service.

@Bickles It is strange though, as I don't think our practice is getting rid of all NHS patients, just some. I will ask them, as I am suspicious of discriminatory behaviour such as racism. At least I would like to know how they decide who to remove from treatment.

Sorry for your pain OP, hope you are feeling better 💐.
This is all very interesting, I naively assumed whatever work NHS dentists did they got fully reimbursed for. Would someone in the know explain how these contracts work or post a link please?

@thefamilyupstairs nhs services are divided into bands. If u Google it , it will come up.
so exams x rays etc are band 1
and fills , rct etc are band 2
anything requiring lab work is band 3

practices are not paid what the patient pays. They are paid per UDA so any work within the band 2 is 3 UdA the practice gets about 26 £ per UDA although this varies so can be higher or lower. That is then used to pay the dentist, the nurse, the materials , the equipment basically the whole practice is supposed to run from this which was set back in 2006.

the extraordinary thing is that it is not paid per item but per band. So if a patient walks in and needs 1 filling that is band 2 and you get 3 UDA but if the same person needs 6 fills, an RCT , preventative work, it is still Band 2 so you still get only 3 UDA which is just crazy.

in no other place in life can you get 5 or 10 items or services for the cost of 1.

it is easier to blame dentists than to pressurise the politicians and it puts further stress on the dentists/nurses and more and more are either going private or leaving the profession altogether.

my friend was a dental nurse and she left to work in a clothes shop as the pay was better she didn’t have to do any CpD and it was a whole lot less stress. Cleaners around here charge 15£/hr and her pay was 8£/hr and that was after being a dental nurse for 20 years.

There are only 3 bands for NHS treatments. The highest being £259. You must have opted for some private treatment.

Please check your employer's perks. Many years ago one employer joined HSF. I was able to pick a package that suited my needs (in terms of what I paid for that package). As it was a corporate package I got a discounted rate versus approaching HSF as an individual.

Depending on the package there are a variety of things you can claim on. Either 50% or 100% of the cost.

My family gets £400 per year to spend on dental and optical. It doesn't sound much for the monthly fee (now not discounted as we go direct and not via a corporate discounted package) but we also get money for loads of other things.

I've had £300 for spending time in an NHS hospital. My DD got money when she broke her arm. I got a birth grant.

You need to really consider if it's right for you. We've had more money out than we've paid in. So it works for us. Plus HSF transfer any profit they make to a grant making foundation which makes grants to support health charities in the UK.

Going to put my head on the block here!

I feel the same about vets. Their image is one of 'caring about animals' but only for very large sums. Yes, I get that they've trained for many years and that it's a demanding job. Of course they deserve a good wage.

But I've had experiences where I've taken very small, elderly creatures (6/7-yr old hammies, gerbils and guinea pigs) over to be put to sleep only to be put under massive pressure to do surgery on them, or start some course of medication. The gerbil had 'come back from the dead' several times and had lost most of its hair - the poor think just needed to be put out of its misery. I think so many vets cynically exploit pet-owners' sentimentality for large fees, not always in the best interests of the animals. For an animal (particularly a small one with a short life-span), the treatment is sometimes worse than the illness and their interests need to come first. Vets sometimes guilt people into keeping animals alive beyond what is kind.

And then there's the problem of vets only wanting to treat small animals, ie pets of wealthy people. Apparently there's a problem getting enough vets to deal with farm animals - not lucrative enough, I guess. Please correct me if I'm wrong! Of course there are exceptions, but I think it's a trend.

Plus the amount of tuition fees that they have incurred as students.

You are being totally unreasonable. The government are barely paying enough to cover running costs let alone make a living. Dentists are people with families and bills to pay like other people- and they are people who have studied long and hard to become skilled at a difficult job, which is by and large thankless. The government are systemically running down the NHS on purpose. Stop voting for tories.

Thanks for that @User1563

Do you know how little dentists get paid in the NHS?

It dosent matter if you need one tiny filling or 20 root canals it's the same price. There's literally no incentive to be a NHS dentist!

Also you're not qualified to know it it's a tiny hole 😂🤦🏽‍♀️

This is how my much my husband pays to be a dentist-

Student fees (9 years as he's a specialist)- £80K

GDC- £900 a year

Indemnity- 10K a year

Add on equipment, courses... not even starting on actually running a dental practice!

That is all self funded. So yeah it's no surprise that dentists turn private!

As an over worked, harassed NHS dentist, please please write to your MP about your lack of access to care.

And please brush your teeth with a skincare and floss at night before you go to bed. Keep an eye on sugar between meals and do a fluoride mouth rinse during the day.

You'll save yourself thousands and it keeps the pressure of me and my colleagues!

Thank you.

Sonicare sorry

How much do you think an NHS dentist gets paid for an exam and a clean and 2 fillings OP?? I would bet £100 you overestimate how well the NHS pays…..

Time to pay professionals properly, I also work for the NHS. Recently found out what a friend from the same course is making in the private sector. It's nearly double what I make and a lot less responsibility/stress.

@thefamilyupstairs- NHS dentists have a contract with the NHS. They are given a set number of UDAs and have to reach that number by the end of the tax year so April- that's why dental practices open their books again in April.

Once they hit their numbers they don't get paid a thing.

I can't remember exactly because it's been a while since I worked in an nhs practice but there's 3 bands in the nhs that you pay and the price is different in England and Wales.

Band 1- check up- this is 1 UDA

Band 2- 1 filling, 20 fillings, root canals, extractions etc. you pay one fee. The dentist will get 3 UDA points for this in total.

Band 3- lab work- highest band as you have to pay a lab fee. This is worth 12 UDAs

Does that make sense? It's a really shit system

But if dentists are well paid for private work, why can't they keep a limited number of NHS patients on their books as well? I realise this would be charitable work, but dental care is a health necessity so I would have thought dentists might do it out of good will. Why get rid of all NHS patients?

@gnilliwdog why on earth should they do it out of good will? Why should they be out of pocket it's not their responsibility.

@sageandbasil Because if private work is as lucrative as this thread claims, they should want to do it out of common decency. It is essential healthcare. Only morally bankrupt people would refuse to treat anyone on the NHS if they are making plenty of money elsewhere.

@gnilliwdog did you not see my post about how much dentists pay out! I hope you also work for free

My DD never had an NHS dentist under Blair, there simply wasn't one nearby but there were some in Cornwall, i had a good job so paid.

Now all of Cornwall & Devon don't have a single NHS Dentist taking on new patients.

The trouble is an nhs dentist get a fixed fee per banded treatment, regardless how long that treatment takes or costs them, so they go private.

The Tories have had 12 years to resolve the issue by paying more but have done nothing, its just got worse, they fucked up every aspect of healthcare, probably deliberately.

Dental students get into huge debt training for 5 years, they have no obligation to do nhs work on the cheap.