I don't want to be 'reigned over' anymore

[Yubgftr]

While I totally respect the Queen and how she served the country, I think it's now a good time to end the monarchy as I think modern society has outgrown it.

Just the idea that someone inherits the job of head of state through birthright and reigns over us peasants is crazy in this modern age. Then all the ceremonies, titles, line of succession are remnants of a completely different era and tbh remind me of episodes of The Tudors or Game of Thrones, it's just so archaic and out of place.

I think having to bow and curtsey to people just because they were born or married into a special family also seems ridiculous. Why should I have to curtsey to any of them? Not saying I'd be rude or disrespectful but having to bend my knee to a set of people as if they were deities, it's just insane! I think I'd actually feel humiliated.

I also don't get the fawning and crying outside the palace - by all means be respectful and recognise her contribution but crying about someone you've never met? To me it's OTT

Back in medieval times when there was little education and religion was used to manipulate the masses, I can understand why all the peasants went mad for their sovereign and saw them as annointed by God etc etc but we're much more enlightened now (most of us!) so we need to make way for a new way of doing things.

Even a new national anthem - why is it all about the king or queen and god saving them? Why not about the people, the nation as a whole?

That said, I also hate the idea of someone like Boris Johnson being head of state and I bet that's a role he'd go for if we were a Republic. Swings and Roundabouts!

YABU - God save the king, monarchy forever
YANBU - time to end the monarchy

Spot on? Isn't it, just.

The monarchy and its supporters would have us dismiss every question on the basis that the answer to the first principle is 'none'. It's a message they've taken care to disseminate via the media in a mode akin to repetitive conditioning, in the sense that if something is repeated often enough, it becomes accepted as true.

Hot off the back of that assertion is that the British people 'love' their monarchy and want them to stay in situ.

Of course we all know neither of those proclamations are true. To scotch the first statement, anyone with their degree of power over the media, with the cossetted protection of the establishment to cover up their murkier dealings, and with exemption from the FOI Act, are in fact inordinately powerful. They might not exert that power overtly, but doing so secretly and insidiously should be more of a concern to a nation with pretensions to democracy and transparency.

As for the second claim, republicans are not (as they were seen when I was a teenager) a minority frothing cranky beatniks, Marxists and anarchists. They are an increasing, powerful and insistent voice in a media age, one no longer willing to buy everything they see in print and swallow piecemeal everything the establishment tells them. And a good thing, too.

Sorry , to be specific, was referring to your post of 13:22 there!

The royal family is the only family in the land exempt from the Freedom of Information Act. Another nice little handy exemption they carved out for themselves. And people claim with a straight face they have no power in which case what is the bloody point of them anyway

😀👋

Nowt wrong with being a Marxist beatnik I'll have you know 😉

The state has spent £600,000 to keep some of the Mountbatten papers secret.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/07/anger-over-grotesque-abuse-of-600000-case-to-keep-mountbatten-papers-secret

Yup. Heard Mary McAleese talking about it yesterday and she was still slightly in awe that that happened.

Now, you're using a newspaper headline which doesn't actually address my point.

The Queen saying a short series of neutral words is NOT remotely close to political interference.

Agreed. Incredibly immature post.

It is clear? Are you living on another planet or something when you see the well wishes gathered for the new king? Pampered his whole life? I don’t think you’ve had to live his life. Whether or not be agrees with monarchy one could agree this is a typically ignorant post representative of a typically ignorant form of republicanism.

What proportion of the UK population is gathered as well-wishers exactly? Looks to me like 99+% of the population hasn't got off their arses one way or the other.

And the monarchists have not come up with a single counter-argument to any of the many valid, substantiated and documented republican arguments on this thread. I know which side has the intellectual upper hand, and it's not the one you're calling ignorant.

As the coffin is in Scotland and the crowds are 15 deep in Edinburgh seems quite a few people have. Your cases for republicanism aren’t exactly valid and documented when we have a constitutional monarchy and an elected parliament. For goodness sake you seem to be thinking that the Monarch has constitutional power. The so-called intellectual arguments don’t seem to even know the British constitution. Perhaps it would be better if they were educated before they talk about things I know nothing about

@DownNative - the point I'm making is that others in the media have commented the same is that candid but suitably obtuse comment was maybe pre-planned and directed towards achieving a political outcome.

The Queen pointedly makes a comment to a person that is picked up on and amplified by the media. Job done. The so-called well-wisher could even be a plant or someone who works on the Royal Estate and then the planned pick-up from the press does the rest. That's how news is both created and managed with her still keeping out of politics. It was widely interpreted as being an intervention and it would take a perverse view to think that it did nothing other than favour the existing status-quo.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote

The most recent figures from three and a half months ago show that 62% of Brits are in favour of the monarchy and 22% are in favour of replacing it with an elected head of state.

The monarchy's popularity has peaks and troughs (it tends to rise for occasions like the Platinum Jubilee and significant Royal Weddings). It is not as high as it once was and older people are more likely to be in favour, but those calling to abolish it are currently in a minority. Even among those aged 18-24, 33% are in favour of keeping it while 31% want an elected head of state instead.

So now's a good time for a vote on on it would you say ?

What do you mean by "a good time"?

As the coffin is in Scotland and the crowds are 15 deep in Edinburgh seems quite a few people have. Your cases for republicanism aren’t exactly valid and documented when we have a constitutional monarchy and an elected parliament. For goodness sake you seem to be thinking that the Monarch has constitutional power. The so-called intellectual arguments don’t seem to even know the British constitution.

1. finger in the air stuff won't cut it. Loads more people haven't turned out.

1. non-sequitur

1. Misunderstanding the argument

The fact is when you are young (as I once was) republicanism appears a good idea. When you are older and see so many idiotic and corrupt politicians come and go then the monarchy appears to have its benefits.

No. Monarchists would win by a royal mile at the moment.

Ex-Ambassador Craig Murray has a personal and trenchant take.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/09/thats-enough-monarchy-now/

29% of the people of the UK want to abolish the monarchy, excluding Don’t Knows; in Scotland that is 43%. In the UK as a whole 18 to 24 year olds are 62% in favour of abolition of the monarchy, excluding Don’t Knows. They will be further alienated by the outlandish current proceedings. Only the loyal will be reinforced – a large section of the population will snigger as the absurd pomposity grows. I found myself yesterday on Twitter urging people to be a bit kinder as the Queen lay dying.
Think seriously on this. 29% of the population want to abolish the monarchy. Think of all the BBC coverage of the monarchy you have seen over the last decade. What percentage do you estimate reflected or gave an airing to republican views? Less than 1%?

@ReneBumsWombats

I mean - would you therefore support a vote on the matter as you are sure of overwhelming support ?

No, not right now. Certainly let the long-overdue conversation about the future constitution be started now. But as to a vote, hang fire until the dust's settled on the funeral and the rosy glow of nostalgia for the 'Elizabethan age' recedes a little further into the past.

Then let the country swallow a few years of Charles III. The chances of a 'get rid' vote will by then probably be a lot higher.

In fact it's quite remarkable that nearly a third of people want it gone given the utterly relentless PR propaganda campaign in its favour. Imagine if the BBC did a prime time Panorama-style report on their murky finances, opaque behind the scenes string-pulling to get laws shaped in their favour etc. We'd walk it 😄

All I did was share the latest YouGov findings, since there was some debate going on as to what most people want.

From that you have made completely baseless assumptions about my personal beliefs, and even been slightly aggressive about it. If there is another vote on it at any point (and there will be, YouGov will be on it), I hope it's devised and counted by people who are more fair-minded than you.

I think it's the natural time for a referendum on the monarchy. I'm sure if we debated the issue properly the great British public would vote to be done with Charles etc al. Despite what some of the misguided royalists would have you believe.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks
I agree of course .

A few years of Charles should help a lot !

I meant that often royalists state how popular the monarchy is but when asked about a vote on the matter they go quiet .