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AIBU?

to think the Accession proclamation implies God is British?

31 replies

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:11

www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/images/downloads/ACCESSION_PROCLAMATION.pdf

We,therefore, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of this Realm and Members of the House of Commons, together with other members of Her late Majesty’s Privy
Council and representatives of the Realms and Territories, Aldermen and Citizens of London, and others, do now hereby with one voice and Consent of Tongue and Heart publish and proclaim that The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George is now, by the Death of our late Sovereign of Happy Memory, become our only lawful and rightful Liege Lord Charles the Third, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories, King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, to whom we do acknowledge all Faith and Obedience with humble Affection; beseeching God by whom Kings and Queens do reign to bless His Majesty with long and happy Years to reign over us.


Shouldn't it just be "Grace of God"

Oh - and Kings and Queens don't reign because of God, but that's another thread.

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Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/09/2022 18:12

Did you doubt it?

Testina · 10/09/2022 18:15

Nah, you’ve got all “His” other Realms mentioned there too 😉

Tbf, much as Charles liked to say, “Defender of Faiths”, this particular God is the God of the Church of England. So yeah - he’s British - or rather English. If you make someone up, you get to choose.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:16

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/09/2022 18:12

Did you doubt it?

I think he's from Yorkshire

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Testina · 10/09/2022 18:16

And did his feet, in ancient times…

ForfuckssakeEXHstopbeingatwat · 10/09/2022 18:20

It's an ancient rite, oh course the language is archaic and anachronistic. You either buy into the traditional aspect of it as a quaint custom and like the harking back or you spit about inappropriate / racist. / Colonial / offensive etc. Personally I'm the former . If you witness Christian rites in other countries they are different in emphasis, naturally.

DownNative · 10/09/2022 18:20

No, it means the King is Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories literally by the Grace Of God.

It doesn't imply God is British at all. 🤦‍♂️

shortandpaleandoldandugly · 10/09/2022 18:21

You're missing a comma!!

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:22

DownNative · 10/09/2022 18:20

No, it means the King is Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories literally by the Grace Of God.

It doesn't imply God is British at all. 🤦‍♂️

See - I thought that - but doesn't it need a comma after God?

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IVflytrap · 10/09/2022 18:24

That's quite funny, but it is simply a grammar issue. There should probably be a comma after "by the Grace of God". If you remove that exclamation, it becomes clearer that it's Charles the Third "of" the United Kingdom:

The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George is now, by the Death of our late Sovereign of Happy Memory, become our only lawful and rightful Liege Lord Charles the Third, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories, King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

(I do find it silly that our monarch is head of the C of E and "defender of the faith", all because a king 500 years ago wanted a divorce. However, if they'd proclaimed god to be British back then, we would have heard about it incessantly 😆)

Maireas · 10/09/2022 18:24

She most definitely is British.
I read that she's originally from Yorkshire, which is why it's known as God's Own Country.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:25

That's quite funny, but it is simply a grammar issue. There should probably be a comma after "by the Grace of God". If you remove that exclamation, it becomes clearer that it's Charles the Third "of" the United Kingdom

Shouldn't they do it again?
Commas are important.

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IVflytrap · 10/09/2022 18:26

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:25

That's quite funny, but it is simply a grammar issue. There should probably be a comma after "by the Grace of God". If you remove that exclamation, it becomes clearer that it's Charles the Third "of" the United Kingdom

Shouldn't they do it again?
Commas are important.

Nah, it's funnier this way.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:28

I was listening to the proclamation and Penny Mordaunt didn't pause for the comma so I was intrigued.

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Allergictoironing · 10/09/2022 18:29

If you read it with a comma after "By the Grace of God", that may help to change your understanding of the sentence. Probably would read better if that bit (by the Grace of God) came at the end of the rather long and unwieldy sentence, but as a pp said the wording is pretty ancient.

Traditionally, being a King WAS considered to be a God given right, which is why killing a king was such a heinous crime. That was one of the reasons behind the English revolution and beheading of Charles I, as he did believe his right to rule was God given and therefore meant he could do near enough what he wanted.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:32

Would it have been bad if William or someone corrected it by adding a comma before signing?

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cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:32

Or is the Accession not the time for Grammar police?

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Quveas · 10/09/2022 18:34

Testina · 10/09/2022 18:15

Nah, you’ve got all “His” other Realms mentioned there too 😉

Tbf, much as Charles liked to say, “Defender of Faiths”, this particular God is the God of the Church of England. So yeah - he’s British - or rather English. If you make someone up, you get to choose.

But Defender of the Faith is a Catholic title conferred by the Pope on Henry VIII before said Henry fell out over the English monarchs womanising, setting aside the wife for his own convenience. Yeah, OK, so not much change there then.

But to be fair, of course God is British, white, male, and sits on a cloud (somewhere over Luton, I believe). Also, there really are leprechauns in Ireland...

denpark · 10/09/2022 18:34

It's an ancient rite.
You're reaching

Spanielsarepainless · 10/09/2022 18:35

There should be a comma after God.

Brahumbug · 10/09/2022 18:35

@IVflytrap
I do find it silly that our monarch is head of the C of E and "defender of the faith",
The title, "defender of the faith" has nothing to do with the church of England. It was a title given to Henry viii by the pope.

DownNative · 10/09/2022 18:43

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 18:22

See - I thought that - but doesn't it need a comma after God?

I don't think it us strictly grammatically required for there to be a comma in that spot.

But it does mean exactly what I said.

See also Queen Elizabeth II's Royal Title declaration attached.

It is never used to mean anything else.

to think the Accession proclamation implies  God is British?
SausageinaBun · 10/09/2022 18:49

God being British makes as much sense to me as any other bits of religion. It all seems a bit arbitrary to me. Born into a British, Christian family, grow up believing in a British Christian God. Born into a Tibetan Buddhist family, believe in Buddhism. I know people do convert, but generally, where they remain religious, they stick to the religion that the lottery of birth gave them. So why not roll a dice and decide on some more arbitrary bits of religion, like God being British?

But probably just missing a comma.

NoFUturREforYOU · 10/09/2022 18:56

It implies god is real.
Equally as big a reach imo.

PAFMO · 10/09/2022 19:00

shortandpaleandoldandugly · 10/09/2022 18:21

You're missing a comma!!

This.
Nothing to see here. Move on.

cakeorwine · 10/09/2022 19:07

PAFMO · 10/09/2022 19:00

This.
Nothing to see here. Move on.

Not me missing a comma.

The actual proclamation is missing a comma.

You would have thought this would have been noticed before.

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