My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

to think that we should incentivise people to reduce their energy use as the world gas supply is being reduced significantly.

24 replies

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 07:48

The Government is planning to borrow money to fund the difference between the actual price of gas and the cost people pay. This money will go to the gas suppliers and is dependant on the cost of gas.

The cost of gas is increasing because Putin has reduced the gas supplies to Europe.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to not only support people to have lower energy bills but to also find a way we can reduce our use of gas, through rationing and other ways people at home and in industry can reduce their use?

Or else the price and the cost will just keep going up and up

OP posts:

Am I being unreasonable?

36 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
39%
You are NOT being unreasonable
61%
Hmmph · 08/09/2022 08:01

Yes. If you listen to More or Less on Radio 4 this week they explained about why gas affects all electricity prices.

Basically we use all the renewable energy and nuclear energy first, but its not quite enough for the country's needs. So we have to top up by making gas from electricity.

The cost is based on the last bit needed (I think they called it the marginal price), which is currently the extortionate price of gas.

Why not allow households a set number of kWh on a cheap renewable price. If you go over your allowance, you pay the top up gas price.

This will reduce bills and electricity usage.

NutellaEllaElla · 08/09/2022 08:04

People like you and me are do insignificant in terms of usage that is just the wrong place to focus. Start with the massive corporations to make the biggest impact.

NutellaEllaElla · 08/09/2022 08:05

So not do

midgetastic · 08/09/2022 08:05

It's a left wing societal policy not a right wing the market will sort it policy that's why

The idea of restrictions on your freedom to work hard and buy whatever you want is horrific to sone people

The idea that all people including obvious wasters (or they wouldn't be poor) deserve basics at affordable prices - there is no deserving if you can't afford it

And if you can afford it why should your liberties be restricted in the name of the greater good ( cheaper fuel for all, less carbon emissions because of those things really mattered the market would sort it )

TigerRag · 08/09/2022 08:10

Will there be exemptions for those of us with disabilities who need the extra gas and electricity? But then everyone will try to apply for one - disability, elderly, because they work from home, they have children, etc.

A580Hojas · 08/09/2022 08:13

I'm as worried as everyone else about the horrific increases in energy prices (and just plain baffled that those at the top of the chain are going to continue to make gargantuan profits) but I do welcome the re-set on consumption that this will inevitably mean. It's like being FORCED into doing something about the climate crisis rather than just making promises for the future.

MarshaBradyo · 08/09/2022 08:13

We’ll still consider usage as it’s not going to be as cheap as before . I didn’t really consider keeping heating off that much but all this will impact behaviour

Even with this help apparently people will still struggle - so usage will go down. Martin Lewis seems happy with it (speaking now on R4)

Usage overall - it depends re details for business. What is their rate?

balalake · 08/09/2022 08:14

One way that would make a contribution would be to end the archaic practice of putting clocks back in winter. I'd expect people would delay putting heating on full time for a couple of weeks, and lighting yes would be less.

Anycrispsleft · 08/09/2022 08:14

Hmmph · 08/09/2022 08:01

Yes. If you listen to More or Less on Radio 4 this week they explained about why gas affects all electricity prices.

Basically we use all the renewable energy and nuclear energy first, but its not quite enough for the country's needs. So we have to top up by making gas from electricity.

The cost is based on the last bit needed (I think they called it the marginal price), which is currently the extortionate price of gas.

Why not allow households a set number of kWh on a cheap renewable price. If you go over your allowance, you pay the top up gas price.

This will reduce bills and electricity usage.

This is what they are doing here in Germany. I think it is an excellent idea. It keeps the price incentive to reduce energy usage but protects a basic standard of living/minimum living temperature, at lest for smaller houses - and most of us with bigger houses can either cough up for the expensive gas or heat one room, which is enough.

We also have some energy saving measures already implemented. Public buildings will not be heated above 19 degrees (the kids will be used to it, as last year they had all the windows open due to covid entire class all caught it within three days of each other anyway) and we already have the streetlights switched off on one side of the street.

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 08:15

midgetastic · 08/09/2022 08:05

It's a left wing societal policy not a right wing the market will sort it policy that's why

The idea of restrictions on your freedom to work hard and buy whatever you want is horrific to sone people

The idea that all people including obvious wasters (or they wouldn't be poor) deserve basics at affordable prices - there is no deserving if you can't afford it

And if you can afford it why should your liberties be restricted in the name of the greater good ( cheaper fuel for all, less carbon emissions because of those things really mattered the market would sort it )

I use the lifeboat analogy elsewhere.

It's no good subsidising the cost of food on a life boat when there is limited food and we need it to last before we can reach safety.

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 08:16

NutellaEllaElla · 08/09/2022 08:04

People like you and me are do insignificant in terms of usage that is just the wrong place to focus. Start with the massive corporations to make the biggest impact.

23 million households can make an impact.

As can businesses and other institutions

OP posts:
DahliaBlue · 08/09/2022 08:21

There definitely needs to be a balance somewhere. We all need to reduce usage so some incentivisation should be included in the overall plan. The market model needs to be changed so that we are not paying extortionate prices for all usage. I do not fully understand it but I understand the price for all units is based on the most expensive and the suppliers are making huge profits. This does not seem right that the suppliers are making huge profits while consumers are putting themselves (or the tax payers and future generations) into debt.

Georgeskitchen · 08/09/2022 08:23

I agree OP, more should be done to ensure that homes are as insulates as possible and there much that householders can do themselves with a bit of good advice.
Also there is mostly no need for homes to be constantly heated to almost tropical levels.
A jumper, a fleecy blanket and some thick socks can make a difference to an annual energy bills!!

MarshaBradyo · 08/09/2022 08:26

It’s still going to cost more though? I don’t know the rate it will end on

This will impact usage

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 08:37

MarshaBradyo · 08/09/2022 08:26

It’s still going to cost more though? I don’t know the rate it will end on

This will impact usage

It's also the overall cost - as gas prices are only going one way at the moment.

So anything we can do to reduce demand instead of just subsidising the increase has to help - it reduces our dependancy on gas, it reduces the rate of the gas price increase and it reduces the future cost to UK taxpayers.

OP posts:
CapMarvel · 08/09/2022 08:40

NutellaEllaElla · 08/09/2022 08:04

People like you and me are do insignificant in terms of usage that is just the wrong place to focus. Start with the massive corporations to make the biggest impact.

Not true at all.

MarshaBradyo · 08/09/2022 08:45

Demand will reduce as price is going to be double last year - details to follow I assume

It just doesn’t need to be so high people are unable to use it at all.

For the first time Martin Lewis seemed pleased, and he is following it from perspective of those who would struggle

What household income would people be on for usage not to be a factor this winter - I don’t think proportionally there will be many even with the subsIdy

But you will see people relieved they can use heat at all (maybe not on here but I’ll go with ML)

Alexandra2001 · 08/09/2022 08:50

Most folk will try and cut back as we will all have to deal with inflation at over 10% for a long time to come but for the better off, just as they still use their cars as much as before petrol price rises, it will make zero difference.

My concern is what happens in 18 months time?
So i predict Truss will end up with a WF tax regardless and i also think this catch all policy will change to more targeted support once they have a bit more time to consider the implications of the policy.

Rapidtango · 08/09/2022 08:51

Hmmph and Anycrispsleft, that is really sensible - incentivising people to use less energy, and keeping prices down for those using reasonable amounts, say 10 - 12 KWH per day - if you want to use more, then OK, but you'll have to pay more for it (usual caveats about people with disabilities, health issues and the very elderly who obviously need access to hot water and warmth etc in their homes).

BerriesOnTop · 08/09/2022 09:22

Do more fracking and deep sea extraction. Build more nuclear. Don’t waste time with renewables.

Rinatinabina · 08/09/2022 10:04

I think most people will have to self limit usage anyway to offset price increases. I think that you would have to be very careful with rationing as vulnerable people can be disproportionately affected.

I do have sympathy with your view. It is a finite thing there is only so much available supply in the world atm and we do need to reduce consumption.

BloodyHellKen · 08/09/2022 10:31

A580Hojas · 08/09/2022 08:13

I'm as worried as everyone else about the horrific increases in energy prices (and just plain baffled that those at the top of the chain are going to continue to make gargantuan profits) but I do welcome the re-set on consumption that this will inevitably mean. It's like being FORCED into doing something about the climate crisis rather than just making promises for the future.

@A580Hojas I agree with you. I see it in my own home that (certain) people would rather put on the heating than put on a jumper. Drives me mad but now I have a really good excuse to insist they wear a jumper instead 😀

ginghamstarfish · 08/09/2022 10:43

While I agree that it is industry and businesses which perhaps have more impact, one upside (if you can call it that) of this energy crisis is that many people are finally considering their domestic energy use more carefully, and changing their behaviour as a result .

mamabear715 · 08/09/2022 10:46

? Will there be anyone NOT cutting back on usage?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.