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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To suggest DP gets a degree

62 replies

Hooploop · 07/09/2022 08:50

DP doesn't have A levels and didn't go to uni. But he's very intelligent and articulate, a bit of a geek actually, and just hated school/education system. He's done well in his career and made it to a senior job in an industry which usually requires a degree as standard. He has 10 years of experience in this industry and is genuinely good at what he does (I used to work with him, that's how we met).

Earlier this year he was made redundant, along with 5 colleagues, and is struggling to get another job. The job market seems to be great for most people at the moment - his laid off colleagues have all got great new jobs, some earning double their previous salary.

He's getting interviews for senior roles at some great organisations (possibly because his last company is a household name, very respected) but not progressing past final interviews. He was offered one role but for £15k a year less than what he was earning previously. I suspect part of it is because he doesn't have a degree.

AIBU to suggest he actually gets a qualification? He's been unemployed for 5 months now, is getting down about it, and his redundancy pay is running out. Just for background, I have a degree and have always been the higher earner.

OP posts:

pennysarah · 07/09/2022 09:41

Depends on the area he works in and degree subject being considered. Doing a degree in a subject with little application wont be worth it. It's costs £27k and there's loss of earnings and pension to consider - worth it if it's needed for certain high paying roles but it doesn't sound like that is necessarily the case and reason he is doing it.
He might be better off considering other recognised training courses- they will be cheaper and generally more applicable to the workplace and then he can show CPD.

Wheredoestheblackfluffcomefrom · 07/09/2022 09:42

I would spend the money on some career coaching, I used Penna in London but there are many around.

a degree won’t be the magic bullet

GnomeDePlume · 07/09/2022 09:55

Once there is significant experience then I would doubt the lack of a degree would be a problem.

If he is getting to final interview then to a large extent that is down to luck on the day.

For now ge would be getter accepting a lower paid role then looking to quickly build up from there.

The best qualification for getting a job is having a job.

Applebark · 07/09/2022 09:57

I totally agree that 10 years experience trumps a degree. If he's applying for similar roles then it would suggest the interviews is what he needs to improve on.

HawthornLantern · 07/09/2022 10:03

I don’t think you are being unreasonable but in practice I think it’s very hard to say. It might depend on his sector. We have a family member in the US, who does not have a degree and who runs his own successful business and who has done for well over a decade. But with a wary eye on the economy, he’s recently decided to make sure he has a college degree on his cv just to be on the safe side. He’s in the IT sector, and I would have thought this is an area where a formal college degree would be much less relevant than a proven track record. He’s not so sure though.

delilahhey · 07/09/2022 10:05

A degree sounds like the least sensible thing to do. Genuinely, how does it make sense when he has the experience??!!

Topseyt123 · 07/09/2022 10:16

I don't think a degree would help, and it would get him into a LOT of debt.

He is getting to final interview stage, and he even got offered one of the jobs, which with hindsight he should have taken despite the lower pay. He could potentially have negotiated for better pay once out of his probation period.

Something just isn't clicking for him quite yet, but hopefully it will soon.

Do NOT lie on the CV. I can't believe someone has actually given that dangerous and foolish advice.

Phos · 07/09/2022 10:17

By the time you've got 10+ years of experience, that's what employers care about, not the degree.

mmmflakycrust81 · 07/09/2022 10:19

There comes a stage in most sectors where experience trumps degree.

Perhaps he could look at adding a industry relevant course that he can study online rather than an actual degree e.g excel?

Forthistopic · 07/09/2022 10:19

He needs to get back into the industry as soon as sensibly possible, even at lower salary. He should be choosy about working for an up-and-coming firm though.
When he is there and proved that he is serious he could explore access to Higher Specialised courses which would help him and the company. It might even lead to Higher Degree equivalents. There used to be Licentiate of one of the Chemistry bodies.

Does he write articles for industry journals? Is he at that level?

SalviaOfficinalis · 07/09/2022 10:20

As others have said, if lack of a degree was the problem he wouldn’t be shortlisted for interview.

Maybe he needs to work on his interview skills? I wonder if there are any coaching/workshop type things… would be much cheaper than a degree.

FinallyHere · 07/09/2022 10:20

Absolutely agree that if he is being invited to interviews, it isn't his lack of a degree which is holding him back, however comforting it might be to pin the blame on something outside himself.

In his situation, I would encourage him to take any reasonable role, swallow the hit in pay and rely on his great performance to push him back up the pay scales in quick time. Getting a better job when you already have one is easier than getting a job.

Meanwhile, get him started on a 'tour' of everyone he knows, who might know someone who has a suitable role. Ask them for ten mins to talk about the issues they currently see in the industry and where they see the business going in the next five years. Also ask for any other contacts who might have time to give their views, then ask them, for the same ten mins with them.

That is a much easier ask than 'have you any jobs going'. Everyone likes to have their opinion listened to. The trends that come out will help him to target his skills and experience in the interviews he is getting.

With a bit of luck, one of those contacts might have just the role he would be perfect for open. Don't pin hopes on this happening, it's great if it does happen, it's the process that works.

Taking time out would only make sense if he felt he had a major skill gap or wanted to change roles or specialise. All the best

DenholmElliot1 · 07/09/2022 10:22

Yes, suggest he gets a degree. What's the worst that can happen?

AchatAVendre · 07/09/2022 10:23

SalviaOfficinalis · 07/09/2022 10:20

As others have said, if lack of a degree was the problem he wouldn’t be shortlisted for interview.

Maybe he needs to work on his interview skills? I wonder if there are any coaching/workshop type things… would be much cheaper than a degree.

Thats just not correct. He might be getting invited to interviews based on his experience on his cv but failing to impress because employers prefer candidates with degrees for a whole host of reasons. They are giving him a chance but not saying a degree isn't required simply by interviewing him. The jobs market can be really competitive at the moment, and not having a degree scores you lower than candidates with a degree. It depends far more heavily on what other candidates they have to choose from.

SatinHeart · 07/09/2022 10:26

Agree with pp saying that if the degree was a barrier they would screen him out before the interview stage.

Doing a degree now would just put him in debt and also out of his industry for 3 years, making his experience less current.

If you can possibly afford it, he should probably accept a pay cut to get back into the workforce if one gets offered again.

motherofthelittlescreamingone · 07/09/2022 10:27

He should take a lower paid job - better to be in work, can always keep looking!

TooHotToTangoToo · 07/09/2022 10:29

I doubt it's the lack of degree, I've never had an issue with getting senior roles, and I've only just got GCSE's. Those types of roles are far more interested in experience

thesandwich · 07/09/2022 10:33

Does he use LinkedIn? Does he have a wide industry network?

LollingAround · 07/09/2022 10:35

Why don't you tell us the industry?

Are there any other additional qualifications or short professional courses he could do rather than a degree?

Fleur405 · 07/09/2022 10:38

Difficult to say without knowing the role but I expect his interview skills might be the issue.

FinallyHere · 07/09/2022 10:41

DenholmElliot1 · 07/09/2022 10:22

Yes, suggest he gets a degree. What's the worst that can happen?

If it isn't the degree holding him back, then taking a pointless degree will cost him three years (min) wages gore gone , £9k a year fees plus living expenses

Seems pretty convincing to me

larry4PM · 07/09/2022 10:42

I work in a senior role and have always had to prove any qualifications I claim to have - screening is typical of senior roles to make sure you're not a massive liar, like the previous poster recommended he try to be! Stupid idea.

If he's got 10 years of experience where he's moved up the ranks (i.e. he's not been in a junior role for 10 years with zero progression), he's probably reached the point in his career where he's deemed to have equivalent experience and a degree will add nothing.

You're not unreasonable to suggest he does something with his time after redundancy - a short course, volunteering, etc - but you are unreasonable to tell him to go to uni. Especially seeing as he doesn't even have A-Levels. Just because a degree worked for you doesn't mean it's relevant to his path.

He's getting the interviews, so he could do with some help with interview practice. I doubt he would want to do that from you - I do sense a slight undertone of judgement - but he must have professional contacts from his previous role who would be willing to help. I do interview practice with old colleagues all the time - I know them well enough to know which questions they'll hate, so I force them to practice those. Really good success rate in getting them new jobs!

Gently suggest he taps up his network for more support. And if it's relevant to his line of work, his LinkedIn needs to be up-to-date, with a professional photo, and plenty of activity from him on it.

NovaDeltas · 07/09/2022 10:43

No, complete waste of money. Is he in tech? No one gives a shite about degrees and a lot of developers, including senior and lead, are self taught or have degrees in other subjects. Experience is all that matters.

He needs to keep at it and ensure his soft skills are decent. It's not just about coding or tech stuff, it's about coming across as a friendly person you can work with. That's usually where developers go awry.

SalviaOfficinalis · 07/09/2022 10:49

AchatAVendre · 07/09/2022 10:23

Show quote history

You don’t agree, that’s fine, it doesn’t mean my opinion is “not correct”.
Unless I was giving clearly false or dangerous advice there’s no need to mark my homework!

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 07/09/2022 10:56

aftonwater · 07/09/2022 09:11

Absolutely do not lie about having a degree on a CV.

Show quote history

If you seriously beleive it is lack of degree...

Would he do an experiment...

Send his usual CV...

Send a usual CV BUT slightly disguised re school/prev job role...)so it's not evident its the same as #1, different name /dob /address..and ADD a degree...

Abd see if pretend person gets a better response?

Not for him to proceed with a faked CV.. As thus is fraud...!

But just so you know

Another thought... Is it anything to do with interview prep/performance...

Dobyou know the successful candidates..? Were they similar to your OH but with a degree?

If I were recruiting - if all other things were equal... I may well decide on someone with a degree... Hust it's a more 'even' background...

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