AIBU?
To Think This Isn't Discriminatory - Really Shocked
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 09:25
I am advertising a room in my house for rent (i.e. a lodger) and specified "females only". Facebook Marketplace has removed the listing because it is discriminatory. I am sure the Equality Act permits exceptions to the discrimination rules where accommodation is provided in your own home.
I have been literally plagued by dodgy men demanding to view, no discernable proper names or photos, refuse to provide any form of ID and keep demanding to view and sending messages until I block them. I suspect I missed blocking one of these men and he reported me out of spite.
I appealed the decision and it came back immediately that my appeal was refused, I was being "discriminatory" and breaching their rules.
Now Facebook isn't that important to me (although responses received on other mediums haven't been much better) but am I being unreasonable to think this is shocking of FB. I just want to protect myself against being in a vulnerable position in my own home with a stranger, FGS!
Am I being unreasonable?
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Lemonyfuckit · 06/09/2022 17:42
Dotjones · 06/09/2022 10:18
I think Facebook are correct, my interpretation of the Equality Act is that the exception does not apply if you advertise the room as available.
So you could legitimately decide to only let the room to women, but by advertising it you've relinqished that right.
What on Earth are you talking about - how would you let it then if you couldn't advertise it? Of course it's completely legitimate to say a room to let us for women only.
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 17:46
Proteinpudding Many posters in here are reading far too much into this to fit into their 'won't someone think of those of us born with ovaries' mentality..
Are they really?
I have advertised for housemates/lodgers many times and it is annoying, but honestly if you can't deal with the filtering process I would question your resilience to deal with a lodger if there were issues about boundaries, differences of expectations etc. Online you can say no, then ignore or block. Much easier than dealing with people living with you.
I've been letting this room out for the past 9 years, have had several lodgers and keep in touch with all of them now they have moved on. Your wild accusation about "lacking resilience" simply indicates that you might have different standards than many of us.
Do you really think that women shouldn't discuss this issue? Its never occurred to you that it might be useful for other people? There will be a lot of first time landlords due to the cost of living crisis. I haven't rented out this room since before Covid/lockdown, and it seems to me that people's behaviours have changed. I previously haven't had to put up with this multiple messaging from men when I have politely said "Thanks for your interest but I prefer a female lodger". Whether thats due to changes in society or the cost of living crisis I don't know, but I've never before been made to feel so uncomfortable. One individual sent me 18 messages, none of which I replied to, in the space of 50 minutes trying to explain to me why I should let the room to him. So many have been really disrespectful of boundaries or my right to choose who I let in my house.
As I said, I have discussed this with friends in my city who are also looking for lodgers/tenants and they are having exactly the same experience, and I think all of our filtering processes are robust albeit standard common sense/good practice - need to be able to introduce themselves and be polite, need to be a woman, need to have current employment, ID, a reference and deposit to be offered the rental. If you personally don't insist on those things then you are opening yourself up to problems, so perhaps you should be more careful.
DaisyMcTitface · 06/09/2022 17:59
OP - you are not being discriminated against on the grounds of sex. That’s not how it works.
To make this case you’d have to prove that being a woman is the reason you’re not allowed to be discriminating in your choice of housemates. If they have the same rule for men asking for male housemates, you couldn’t prove that…because it wouldn’t be true.
Private companies are allowed to have their own terms of service, which you’d have agreed to when you signed up. And the safety issue is not relevant because they are not telling you who you may or may not rent your room to, only that you can’t advertise on their site.
ProfessorSlocombe · 06/09/2022 18:17
It also doesn't matter whether Facebook has a Californian base or not. I am a British citizen living in Britain who has been discriminated against in Britain.
It matters a great deal if you wish to use UK law to enforce UK rights though. You need to get them into a UK court and have a judgement that can be enforced in the UK. Until then, this is all just idle chatter.
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 18:18
LampLighter414 · 06/09/2022 18:01
OP why don’t you offer this room to a female refugee from Ukraine rather than having dirty men pester you in response to online ads
I actually registered with a site that does that several months ago (on Facebook but an official one using it) and got 3 enquiries, all from men of fighting age (!) and one woman with 2 children. Nothing else. tbh I'm a bit concerned at rising fuel bills and having extra expenses if I don't write it into the lease and I don't think its for me now.
MaybeThisIsntForYou · 06/09/2022 18:45
Spareroom is really the main website for finding lodgers; I've always found it fairly reliable
This is their guide to the law on the topic www.spareroom.co.uk/content/default/discrimination/
nutellachurro · 06/09/2022 18:51
@IceCreamSurprise
You're not being discriminated against
And they're not breaking the law for not allowing you to post something.
You being allowed to discriminate doesn't = you being discriminated against for not being able to bypass a private companies policies for their own website.
sheepandcaravan · 06/09/2022 21:09
I agree with others saying it's wording or fb process.
Here's an example from this week which drew me to this thread.
A friend, selling something called a frog bike. Put advert in frog bike resales, and shared it on her page.
Advert deleted for being discriminatory
She posted asking for advice and wtf? She's appealed and it's been allowed.
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 21:15
sheepandcaravan · 06/09/2022 21:09
I agree with others saying it's wording or fb process.
Here's an example from this week which drew me to this thread.
A friend, selling something called a frog bike. Put advert in frog bike resales, and shared it on her page.
Advert deleted for being discriminatory
She posted asking for advice and wtf? She's appealed and it's been allowed.
Its been up for a while without issue. Other adverts on FB Marketplace are much more blatantly saying "Women tenants only" or similar. Someone's reported it.
Proteinpudding · 06/09/2022 21:54
Op you're really not getting it - it doesn't matter whether it has been reported, it's still AI that review it. You're trying to take a stand against a company that you are not paying, for a purpose that is the tiniest part of the business, Facebook won't give a flying F. And nor should you - they're a social media/data mining platform. They are not claiming to be bastions of free speech and equality, nor are they a housing company, or a UK company. They aren't beholden to European or UK law. You can still choose a female lodger, if you want you can choose a vegan one, one over a certain age, one with a particular credit score, or one because you like their shoes - you're not in a bad position at all. You just have to write an advert that fits their simplistic posting rules. If that's the biggest discrimination you face then you should count your blessings.
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 22:05
Proteinpudding · 06/09/2022 21:54
Op you're really not getting it - it doesn't matter whether it has been reported, it's still AI that review it. You're trying to take a stand against a company that you are not paying, for a purpose that is the tiniest part of the business, Facebook won't give a flying F. And nor should you - they're a social media/data mining platform. They are not claiming to be bastions of free speech and equality, nor are they a housing company, or a UK company. They aren't beholden to European or UK law. You can still choose a female lodger, if you want you can choose a vegan one, one over a certain age, one with a particular credit score, or one because you like their shoes - you're not in a bad position at all. You just have to write an advert that fits their simplistic posting rules. If that's the biggest discrimination you face then you should count your blessings.
You do realise this is just a series of posts on an internet discussion group and you've not mistaken it for a crowd funded claim for damages or something? I think you need more resilience if you're going to post on here. People quite like to discuss things.
Proteinpudding · 06/09/2022 22:12
Sorry but I just find it bizarre that you're surprised Facebook doesn't behave like a physical business in England. Just wait until you find about their taxes.... unless of course it's only transphobia you're interested in and not how digital global businesses work.
IceCreamSurprise · 06/09/2022 22:18
Proteinpudding · 06/09/2022 22:12
Sorry but I just find it bizarre that you're surprised Facebook doesn't behave like a physical business in England. Just wait until you find about their taxes.... unless of course it's only transphobia you're interested in and not how digital global businesses work.
??? I think you may have read something into my OP that wasn't there 
This interpretation is news to me. Don't quite know what to say. Fairly imaginative though, I'll give you that.
Not great on SpareRoom either. I've had one who just messages asking for more information, even when I ask her what else she wants to know...
nutellachurro · 07/09/2022 10:34
Baconandcoffee · 06/09/2022 22:29
It doesn’t really matter what’s law or what’s Facebook policy, the fact Facebook have such a policy that the words ‘women’ and ‘female’ are flagged as discriminatory says it all.
Tell me you have no idea how FB algorithms work without telling me you have no idea how they work...
ProfessorSlocombe · 07/09/2022 11:04
nutellachurro · 07/09/2022 10:34
Tell me you have no idea how FB algorithms work without telling me you have no idea how they work...
Baconandcoffee · 06/09/2022 22:29
It doesn’t really matter what’s law or what’s Facebook policy, the fact Facebook have such a policy that the words ‘women’ and ‘female’ are flagged as discriminatory says it all.
Why are people obsessing over algorithms ? They have nothing to do with whether Facebook has done anything wrong, and if they have, whether they can be held to account.
OP has gotten themselves in a tizz because Facebook - a privately owned US company - has implemented some guidelines on it's advertising platform that at first flush breaks the UK equality act.
However on closer examination, the issue is that Facebook - for whatever reason - are not allowing an exemption to the law permitted in the UK.
Assuming this thread was intended to garner some practical advice, it's not really going that well is it ? The best practical advice is to have a cup of tea, put it down to life's great learning, and find other platforms that are more in tune with the increasing vagaries of UK law.
Beyond that, trying to get a corporation as fixated on evading any regulation anywhere to amend it's policies is going to be a lot of effort for little or no reward.
There are few legal avenues open to the OP. And all of them have already been trodden by others (with more money) to no avail.
Whether this is a right and proper state of affairs is a fascinating and very wide-ranging topic. One that legal professionals are deeply engaged with all around the world, hence my interest. As I noted preciously, even the UK government has been unable to bring Facebook to account. Not quite sure how the OP could.
IceCreamSurprise · 07/09/2022 11:17
ProfessorSlocombe · 07/09/2022 11:04
Why are people obsessing over algorithms ? They have nothing to do with whether Facebook has done anything wrong, and if they have, whether they can be held to account.
OP has gotten themselves in a tizz because Facebook - a privately owned US company - has implemented some guidelines on it's advertising platform that at first flush breaks the UK equality act.
However on closer examination, the issue is that Facebook - for whatever reason - are not allowing an exemption to the law permitted in the UK.
Assuming this thread was intended to garner some practical advice, it's not really going that well is it ? The best practical advice is to have a cup of tea, put it down to life's great learning, and find other platforms that are more in tune with the increasing vagaries of UK law.
Beyond that, trying to get a corporation as fixated on evading any regulation anywhere to amend it's policies is going to be a lot of effort for little or no reward.
There are few legal avenues open to the OP. And all of them have already been trodden by others (with more money) to no avail.
Whether this is a right and proper state of affairs is a fascinating and very wide-ranging topic. One that legal professionals are deeply engaged with all around the world, hence my interest. As I noted preciously, even the UK government has been unable to bring Facebook to account. Not quite sure how the OP could.
nutellachurro · 07/09/2022 10:34
Tell me you have no idea how FB algorithms work without telling me you have no idea how they work...
Baconandcoffee · 06/09/2022 22:29
It doesn’t really matter what’s law or what’s Facebook policy, the fact Facebook have such a policy that the words ‘women’ and ‘female’ are flagged as discriminatory says it all.
Why do some posters try to be so grandiose? The language used on this thread - "got herself in a tizz", "you're not resilient enough to have a lodger", wittering on about lack of specific knowledge of algorithms being some kind of imaginary skeleton defence, and imagining that no-one else other than they or their circle might want to discuss the issue - how hard are you having to work to make your point? Imagine that the law never changed or legislation was never repealed or updated and new legislation never promulgated, and we were stuck with the laws of 400 years ago! Extrapolation from a discussion raising awareness of an issue on an internet discussion group to comparisons with governments taking on Facebook - erm, unusual.
All of this imaginary, non-evidence based character attribution seems better placed as a case study in DSM V.
In the interests of accuracy, Facebook is a plc and not a private company, albeit one dominated by single shareholders. Facebook also faces a reduction in popularity as other online platforms take over and its audience ages. Its future is not fixed or assured. Therefore, while your confusing an internet discussion with taking legal action is jumping the gun, I have to say that such discussions do have a place. Why on earth wouldn't they?
ProfessorSlocombe · 07/09/2022 11:25
Why do some posters try to be so grandiose? The language used on this thread - "got herself in a tizz",
I'm paid to be grandiose. Good to know those years weren't wasted. And unless they were wasted, seeing a thread where the OP is "shocked" (shocked I tell you) seems an appropriate use of the word tizz. Admittedly not fuming, but the day is young.
Baconandcoffee · 07/09/2022 11:36
nutellachurro · 07/09/2022 10:34
Tell me you have no idea how FB algorithms work without telling me you have no idea how they work...
Baconandcoffee · 06/09/2022 22:29
It doesn’t really matter what’s law or what’s Facebook policy, the fact Facebook have such a policy that the words ‘women’ and ‘female’ are flagged as discriminatory says it all.
Coming from someone who replies like a 12 year old on TikTok 👏
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