To think fitted wardrobes come with the house...

[NeverMovingAgain]

We've taken bloody months and months to get to this stage and we're finally on the home stretch towards completion and exchange so it's entirely possible I've lost sight of what is and is reasonable but am I wrong to think fitted wardrobes should come with the house?

We've finally received a fixtures and fittings form today along with the paperwork we need to sign before we can complete and exchange and it says the fitted wardrobes are excluded from the sale.

Am I losing the plot to think they would surely be coming with the property? We're leaving them in our property, it never occurred to us not to because they are fitted to the space, so surley the whole point is they're designed for that room and you don't take them with you?

I've emailed to get clarification but was it presumptious of me to think they would be staying in the house?

Blimey, the OP was joking!

The seller that sold my house to me tried to charge me for blinds £800.00 in total. I said I was not interested and her left them anyway

We were so green when we bought our first house. The previous owner took out fitted wardrobes, no skirting board or carpeting where they were removed. Also took stair rail and returned one evening for plastic bucket they had left in the garden.

Blimey, the OP was joking!

I thought I'd made it pretty clear but obviously something was miscommunicated with it being written and not verbal. I won't take it personally, it happens.

However, it is interesting to see that to some people a toilet and sink are obviously included but the wardrobes are not despite all of them being on the floor plan and particulars. I'm not sure how people are supposed to preempt this before receiving the fixtures form or why one would be obvious and the other not.

We shall see what Monday brings and hopefully it's a boring easy resolution.

I'm not sure how people are supposed to preempt this before receiving the fixtures form

You mean you didn't use your crystal ball? 😂

Some people on here are arseholes, that's why.

Of course if the wardrobes are mentioned in the particulars and are on the floor plan, everyone involved thinks they are included in the price apart from the vendors. I'm sure the professionals involved will put them straight on Monday.

I'm not sure how people are supposed to preempt this before receiving the fixtures form or why one would be obvious and the other not

you ask on viewing or wait to the form arriving. Before this you cannot assume if you don’t ask. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be royally pissed as well, in fact I was furious. but it doesn’t change the fact it’s perfectly legal and what the form is for. As said if it was the case if it was attached it stayed then there would be no need for a ‘fixtures and fittings form”.

Not sure whether this has been raised already but HMrC would certainly consider them part of the property so attempting to ascribe separate consideration to them would be tax fraud.

The form is very clear

www.suremove.uk.com/downloads/Law%20Society%20Fittings%20and%20Contents%20TA10.pdf

anything on the form can be removed or sold. Only light fittings should be made good, anything else needs to have min damage. You will see things like toilet and sink is not included and cannot be removed.

The aim of this form is to make clear to the buyer which items are included in the sale. It must be completed accurately by the seller as the form may become part of the contract between the buyer and seller.
It is important that sellers and buyers check the information in this form carefully.
z ‘Seller’ means all sellers together where the property is owned by more than one person.
z ‘Buyer’ means all buyers together where the property is being bought by more than one person.

In each row, the seller should tick the appropriate box to show whether:
1 Basic fittings
the item is included in the sale (‘Included’);
the item is excluded from the sale (‘Excluded’); there is no such item at the property (‘None’).
Where an item is excluded from the sale the seller may offer it for sale by inserting a price in the appropriate box. The buyer can then decide whether to accept the seller’s offer.
A seller who inserts a price in this form is responsible for negotiating the sale of that item directly with the buyer or through their estate agent. If the seller or buyer instructs their solicitor to negotiate the sale of such an item, there may be an additional charge.
Sellers and buyers should inform their solicitors of any arrangements made about items offered for sale.
If the seller removes any fixtures, fittings or contents, the seller should be reasonably careful to ensure that any damage caused is minimised.
Unless stated otherwise, the seller will be responsible for ensuring that all rubbish is removed from the property (including from the loft, garden, outbuildings, garages and sheds), and that the property is left in a reasonably clean and tidy condition.

@NeverMovingAgain You sound impressively sanguine about it all!

My friends took radiators, light switches etc with them when they moved because they were things they’d had made bespoke for them and meant a lot to them….BUT obviously they made this clear and they replaced everything with standard ones and there was no repair work needed.

You may not have to legally make good of you remove a fitted wardrobe but that’s by the by - either they should leave them or they can take them but repair the room as if they’d never had fitted wardrobes in the first place. To do anything else would make me think very strongly about asking for money off to make the house good - in line with the condition it was in when you viewed it.

Correct but you completely fail to point out you do not have to agree to whatever the seller puts on this form. You can say no thanks and walk away. Or tell them you expect them to include X or Y. Or say that’s fine but I want a reduction on price. As with all things up to exchange, it is a two way negotiation.

The way you put it, they can say very little is included and you will have to just accept that. Or if they offer to sell things that you expected to be included, you will have to pay the price they put or else lose out on it. Not true at all.

Agree. And again what if the seller wants to remove something that has added value to the asking price of the house ? If the fitted furniture has added value as a high end home improvement, then surely the seller is taking something the buyer is already paying for - factored into the price they’re paying.

Arm yourself with a rough idea of how much it would cost to install a new set of wardrobes in the space, of a similar standard.

If they insist that it wasn't a mistake, explain that the purchase price you negotiated was on the reasonable assumption that the wardrobes were included in the sale. As it will cost you x to replace them you would like the price to be reduced by x (or slightly less than X if you want to sound a bit more reasonable and account for a replacement being brand new).

Also ask for an express contractual condition that the room will be made good after removal of the wardrobes.

Are they the sort that are fitted into an unusual space, eg eaves, or just straight rectangular? I wonder if it is actually possible at all to remove and refit elsewhere without huge expense? If they are designed so they are no free-standing they might collapse if removed anyway.

The vendors may have no real idea of how much it would actually cost them to take these wardrobes with them and re-use in their new property.

Small update I've heard from the vendors agent and their response was what wardrobes....

I've explained and referred back to the particulars they wrote and the photos they took and apparently she is going to look into it and get back to me. So we shall see what happens now.

No word from our solicitor yet but will keep you updated if I hear anything else.

My sister was buying a house and she had to purchase the 'bathe' 'relax' and 'unwind' lettering on the bathroom wall as it was screwed in. They charged her a stupid price too, but them removing them would have rendered the wall untidy so she went ahead and hated them so much she removed them shortly after.

I read far more estate agents listing than I should because we're planning a move. I regularly come across ones where something is being taken that usually stays. I think your vendor is annoyed they didn't get more or is annoyed at the price of putting nice fitted wardrobes in their new place and decided to try and get more money from you. I'd be expecting an offer for you to buy them separately.

Most fitted wardrobe companies say in their T&C that if you move them yourself you invalidate any warranty.

If they want to use them, the need to pay the installers to remove and reinstall them.

I think the ball is in your court OP.

Your sister was taken for a ride!

How on earth was it better to pay for the decorations and then remove them and have to make good the damage?

The vendors were obliged to make good. But even if they had removed them and not fulfilled their obligation to make good, just making good would have been cheaper!

Hope they didn't also have one above the bed saying "Shag".

Good on you for not just letting it go

The agent's response was "what wardrobes?" or the vendor's message, delivered via their agent was "What wardrobes?".

How stupid do they have to be not to be able to match up the name of a room on the form and a picture of the fitted wardrobes?!

That said, it does bode well for it being a mistake on the form.

The agent's response was "what wardrobes?" or the vendor's message, delivered via their agent was "What wardrobes?".

The vendors response was apparently what wardrobes.

My solicitors has been in touch with theirs and apparently they believe it is an error in completing the form. My solicitor is fab bless her and has told them error or not we need it in writing that they are included or she will not commit to completion or exchange. She wants them to redo the forms as otherwise the incorrect forms could come back to bite us. Am paraphrasing so hopefully that makes sense.

The vendors solicitors apparently just want to send an email confirming they are included but I think ours is correct to want the form completed again.

Hopefully you're sorted now and it all goes smoothly 👍

Good update.
Was hoping that was the case.
Enjoy your new house

That's a great update OP, I hope you'll be in your new house soon. 😊