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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think more MNers are using the pronoun 'they' in threads despite knowing the sex of the person?

60 replies

PieceofKate · 31/08/2022 14:48

It's really starting to wind me up. I keep seeing threads where a PP refers quite clearly to a person as 'he' or 'she', or 'my mother', 'my daughter', 'my son' etc - but then people responding switch to 'they'.

I've just seen one. A poster whose neighbour is moving her post. She refers to him as 'he'. A few replies in and he's suddenly a 'they'.

OP posts:
BeanieTeen · 31/08/2022 15:34

So I'd say 'If someone feels ill, find them a chair' but I wouldn't reply to 'I'm taking my daughter shopping' with 'what are you going to buy for them?'.

This is what I mean with it depending on how well or if you know someone. To me, when I think about it carefully, that’s how it works anyway.

If said ‘daughter’ was maybe you’re niece who you know, I agree that would be odd way for you to reply.
But if it was a colleague maybe, and you didn’t know her daughter, I think that would be a normal reply.
Thing is, on MN, most of us don’t know each other personally. Therefore we are always talking about people we don’t know or that other posters don’t know. So it’s more prevalent here to use ‘they’ than in a real life context.

mummabubs · 31/08/2022 15:35

Carrieonmywaywardsun · 31/08/2022 14:51

I use it when I forget if the OP has said their gender. And on the app you can't see the OP without deleting everything you've written. Plus they works for everyone, even if you know the pronoun. More inclusive speak is a good thing

I was going to make a similar point - I only do it when a) I can't remember the sex from the OP and don't want to lose what I've written as I only use the android app (which is terrible but that's a different thread) or b) If I'm posting about someone I know and want to increase anonymity. For me personally it's not an assumption or suggestion of gender neutrality.

notnownorma · 31/08/2022 15:36

Oh, dear, shock horror, the trans agenda is taking over, the sky is falling, etc etc etc.

yawn

Original poster
PieceofKate · 31/08/2022 17:16

notnownorma · 31/08/2022 15:36

Oh, dear, shock horror, the trans agenda is taking over, the sky is falling, etc etc etc.

yawn

No shock, horror or falling sky. Just mild irritation.

OP posts:
wackamole · 31/08/2022 17:47

I know the singular 'they' is as old as the hills but I've never known it to be used to refer to a specific person who has already been referred to as him or her.

This was the crux of your post, and a lot of the replies have missed or misinterpreted it.

Of course it makes sense to be vague about the sex of your child, partner, neighbour, boss, colleague, relative, etc. if you don't want it taken into consideration in the replies. And of course it's OK for the replies to be more general than the OP, or to use different terminology than the OP did. However, it IS confusing if someone switches pronouns for a specific person within one post while explaining a situation. I'd assume it's a mistake (poster perhaps meant to present the question without mentioning sex but accidentally did mention it). Easy to do when you're composing your post on the site, and may be editing for clarity/brevity but miss something. I like the (new with the last Site Update) PREVIEW function for this, but not sure if there might still be bugs with it as I don't use the app.

notnownorma: Oh, dear, shock horror, the trans agenda is taking over, the sky is falling, etc etc etc. yawn This is a weird and ahistorical reach. Intentionally using more general language in the cases where sex is irrelevant is an old feminist tactic which goes back to the 1960s at least; nothing to do with "the trans agenda", whatever that is. Also not relevant to the OP's post.

Snoozysnoozy · 31/08/2022 17:52

Not quite the same but...

I have 2 girls and a boy, as well as that we have multiple pets that are mainly male with the dog being a female.

One of my daughters has declared themselves non binary with pronouns of he/they. All of a sudden my partner refers to all of the other females in the house as they/them while my boy of still he/.

DappledThings · 31/08/2022 17:53

Definitely getting more common and mostly sounds really awkward when he or she would flow more naturally.

You get it with DC as well. Whole opening posts saying, " DC is 5 and likes swimming. Yesterday DC went to the pool with MIL and DC said later that they wanted an ice-cream. DC knows that they are only allowed that once a week. MIL said that DC got really cross" etc. Normal speech would be to replace a few of those "DCs" with he or she.

Breezycheesetrees · 31/08/2022 17:56

A colleague did this to me recently - referred to me as they in an email to a third party which I was copied into. She's met me numerous times, she knows full well I'm a woman, I've got an unambiguously female name, so I'm puzzled as to why she did it. I think perhaps she didn't want to get it wrong, as she doesn't have her pronouns in her signature either - several of our colleagues do but it's a minority. It irritated me though.

Caminante · 31/08/2022 17:56

10HailMarys · 31/08/2022 14:56

'They' has been used in English as a singular pronoun since around the 14th century, regardless of whether the person's gender is known or not. It is not a new development.

You simply notice it now because Mumsnetters are constantly in a tizzy about gender issues and think that any use of the word 'they' is some sort of eraser of biological sex, when in fact it's just a linguistic quirk of informal English that's been around and in daily use for about 700 years.

This. It's been there all along as part of our usage of English.

Carrieonmywaywardsun · 31/08/2022 18:59

TeenDivided · 31/08/2022 15:31

'More inclusive' is not necessarily good when it is less precise and loses and obfuscates meaning.

Though I agree 'they' is useful when you can't be bothered to go back and check the OP.

Show quote history

I'm sure any confusion can be cleared up by asking a question such as "you referred to someone as they, what is their gender and preferred pronouns?" If you really must know such details

Looneytune253 · 31/08/2022 19:03

Gosh, why does it matter. My preteen uses they generally now and it doesn't matter at all. I can't think why anyone would be annoyed by this.

Butchyrestingface · 31/08/2022 19:05

I've just seen one. A poster whose neighbour is moving her post. She refers to him as 'he'. A few replies in and he's suddenly a 'they'.

Think I was one of the posters who referred to a 'they'. I couldn't remember what sex the post-mover was, and after the not-so-big reveal that the thread was a reverse, wasn't wasting any effort going back to double-check.

dressupinyou · 31/08/2022 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StrawberrySquash · 31/08/2022 19:34

Maybe ten years ago people would do it only if they didn't know the gender of a person. It's definitely more common these days for people where you do know the correct pronoun. I think it's because singular they has just become a normal word - it used to be thought of as ungrammatical, hence you used to get clunky he/she where people didn't know.

I'm a bit of a grammar pedant so definitely noticed the shift.

CoffeeIsForClosers · 31/08/2022 20:03

I've noticed this and agree OP. It's weird and clunky when the sex of the person in question is known.

"Sarah took their kids to school."
"John is tying their shoelaces."
"Michelle is going for their cervical smear at 10.00."
"My one-year-old son took their first steps today."

Nah.

Muminabun · 31/08/2022 20:14

It is stupid but I think you can get chucked off or deleted even on mn for committing a heresy of ‘misgendering’……

Afterfire · 31/08/2022 20:19

Dd aged 19 is in her second year of university and she says her and her friends all use “they / them / their” to refer to new people as they’re never sure what pronouns to use and they don’t want to assume anything so they go with “they” etc unless corrected.

thedancingbear · 31/08/2022 20:33

notnownorma · 31/08/2022 15:36

Oh, dear, shock horror, the trans agenda is taking over, the sky is falling, etc etc etc.

yawn

Yep. So boring. So petty. So intolerant.

Siameasy · 31/08/2022 20:40

Yes I’ve noticed it too. In the past you might say “he/she” and I tend to still use this eg “if your child wants to, he/she can come in early”
I notice myself using they unnecessarily; for me it’s only to be used when the sex isn’t known. So I correct myself if I notice it

MissHavishamsMouldyOldCake · 31/08/2022 20:43

Confirmation bias. You're looking for examples of trans ideology creeping in everywhere so are suddenly hyper aware of 'they'. When in fact people having been using 'they' like this for donkeys.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/08/2022 20:45

I’ve noticed it and find it intensely irritating as well. Why does a mother talking about her daughter need to use ‘they’? She doesn’t.

And I find it interesting all the talk about singular ‘they’ being used since the 1400s(ish). Information on the web can be altered. They singular has been used when the sex of the person is not known - (although I was taught it should really be he/she; they is quicker in spoken English). It’s only been in the last five or so years that the inclusion of and when it’s not important has been made. And yes, I am certain of this as I have googled this frequently since I’ve been on mumsnet.

Also - accuracy is important. I’ve just read two books where a character goes by so-called genderless pronouns. It makes it almost impossible to read and understand, and because I personally find it jarring, it completely ruins my immersion.

<end rant>

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 31/08/2022 20:47

I hate it when a poster is talking about someone - (colleague/ friend/ neighbour/ partner) - and the poster calls them 'they' all through the thread. So no-one knows whether the person they're on about is a man or a woman. Really pisses me off.

Willowthewispy · 31/08/2022 20:55

I am mid 40s and have always said they if talking about someone to someone else. As I was brought up to talk this way. Like a previous Scottish poster I was brought up that it was really rude to refer to someone as SHE/HIM

Everyone I know uses they and always has.

ScaryFaces · 31/08/2022 20:56

10HailMarys · 31/08/2022 14:56

'They' has been used in English as a singular pronoun since around the 14th century, regardless of whether the person's gender is known or not. It is not a new development.

You simply notice it now because Mumsnetters are constantly in a tizzy about gender issues and think that any use of the word 'they' is some sort of eraser of biological sex, when in fact it's just a linguistic quirk of informal English that's been around and in daily use for about 700 years.

This.

Also, even if you know the gender of the person in the OP, you may be speaking generically in your response, in which case singular they is correct.

ScaryFaces · 31/08/2022 20:59

Muminabun · 31/08/2022 20:14

It is stupid but I think you can get chucked off or deleted even on mn for committing a heresy of ‘misgendering’……

Only if you're obviously doing it maliciously.