To think tiered electricity prices might work ?

[secrethedgehog]

I saw a suggestion today that a way forward with rising energy prices might be to give every household an allowance ( based on number occupants ?) of x units of energy at a subsidised price. Any units used over that price would then be more expensive, a little more than predicted now, to help finance the reduced price units.
This way the least well off can have at least a minimal amount of heating and power to cook etc without worrying about horrendous bills.
Anyone wanting to use more, and can afford to do so, is then helping to subsidise the price for those less able to pay .
Seems to allow an element of choice whilst encouraging less energy use and therefore having green credentials
Sure there are flaws but seem to be some advantages too ?

I think it's a good idea.

Another variation to help those with disability would be to give an additional amount of KWH at the reduced rate to those who claim PIP, DLA or Attendance Allowance.

This then covers the higher costs associated with disability. The database is already running as these groups are due to get £150 in September which won't touch the sides.

@BashfulClam our household earns a very healthy salary, and I would be more than happy to support a suggestion such as the OPs. We will be doing whatever we can for those that need help, regardless of what the Govt do - probably fuck all, although I do think there will be civil unrest soon.

I do think it is crass when someone comes on with such a username, when the reality is that many people won't be doing Christmas this year, stating their suggestion that 'why should we help them out'.

Not everyone who claims those benefits use anymore KWH though. You can claim PIP and be out in a full time job.

You can also be on Jobseekers and be home all day, hence using more energy to power devices and keep warm.

You also couldn’t do it per person. The government and utility companies do not know how many people live in each house. They have vague ideas on a population level from the census and things but not granular and up to date.
Even the data you provide the council is generally normally on adults only. I don’t think other than council tax or electoral roll the council knows who lives in my house and that’s only updated annually and doesn’t include my DC.

Make it as simple as possible is the only way.

@vegay but we never get anything ourselves. We are constantly asked to help those on less than us but at the same time we’re just afloat. Earn too much for benefits, too old or young for free transport, pay full mortgage, council tax etc and are very much ‘the squeezed middle’.

Also agree with a pp that I live in Scotland it’s much colder here for more of the year so do we get extra allowance?

If you are really paying over 100k in tax you are earning at least 250k a year, and you begrudge perhaps a little more of that going towards people who are literally having to choose whether to buy food or heat their homes?

Fucking hell.

The government and utility companies do not know how many people live in each house.

The water companies base their bills on exactly this info,.unless you've got a meter.
I've just been helping a family sort their bill out with Severn Trent. They told the family they had 5 people living in the house, having a shower every day and doing 5 loads of washing a week. Which was a shock, there's 3 of them and they don't own a washer or a shower. Severn Trent based their info on previous tenants info.
That family signed up to Severn Trent and applied for Severn Trent Big Difference Scheme which helps those on low incomes and benefits to lower their bill.
They didn't qualify in the end, it's means tested, but it was worth applying just in case.

@BashfulClam I'm not saying you should subsidise others. I'm saying that I'd be happy to help others in such a way as the OP suggests. I live in Yorkshire, so although not as cold as beautiful Scotland, it can still get cold. I'm going to make sure I don't use the heating unnecessarily, I can't stop imagining the most vulnerable who are cold though...children, the elderly. I feel sick. This is not an acceptable situation for anyone to be in. It's disgraceful.

That’s true but those of us who are just clinging on are starting to slip now too it’s really worrying.

I don’t recall any kind of information gathering from my water company, and if there was how often do they ask for it to be refreshed? Your example sadly shows that the data they hold would often be completely wrong which would make the idea of allocating per person a bit of a nightmare.. You’d have to phone up your energy provider after the birth of every child for instance… !(and probably provide proof).

@BashfulClam I consider my family squeezed middle in many respects too. I’ve never claimed a benefit in my life. I wouldn’t consider this idea subsidising anyone at all. We are relatively low energy users for two main reasons 1) I always try and make environmentally conscious decisions where I can and 2) We are pretty conservative and would rather put extra money into the mortgage / savings etc than spend it washing towels after every use.

I would likely benefit from this change purely because we are low-ish users. The people I know who would be “subsidising” me would be those who keep thermostats on 20oC day and night etc. This is a choice and nothing to do with income.

Unemployed people get a shade over £4k a year as a standard element of UC which is £334 a month. Imagine that for a second.
If you loved.in social housing, UC pays your rent.. if you don't live.in social housing, you have to make up the rental shortfall from that £334

I helped a family. £950 a month UC.
Rent £450
Council tax £40
Water £13
Gas and electric at the time £60

And that's before food.

If we hadn't got them moved and got them into a cheaper social housing house.. I don't know how they'd have made it through tbh. Bad enough they had to move 85 miles from their home town.
But that's nothing to do with the topic really.

This scheme could help you too @BashfulClam

I am a single homeowner and I remember adding up my council tax and saying to my Dad, I don't get much back for it. He pointed out that that's the system working the way it needs to - a single, healthy adult in full-time employment, without dependents, should be a net contributor unless wages are skewed.

Cost of living is going up so fast that wages are skewed, so I understand your alarm. But a scheme like this that keeps middle earners coping as well as helping the poor is an excellent idea.

What about people who live in flats? Nowhere to hang washing & no option but to use a tumble dryer. Would they get a special rate? Why not encourage councils to burn more rubbish instead of using landfill & use the heat generated to provide heating for council estates? In Sheffield if you are on an estate where district heating operates you only pay £15 a week for as much heat & hot water as you want, after that you only have to pay for electricity, my exh lives in a bungalow that gets it & it is boiling, he could have it on 24/7 if he wanted it. Or pay councils to fit every council home with Solar panels & batteries, bulk buying would be cheaper & rents could be increased to pay rental of the panels & batteries.

@MoistBandana no, I can't even begin to imagine it.

@Nat6999 i lived in a flat for ten years. Never had a tumble drier so there isn’t ‘no
option’.

We're in London and had to have electric fans running in every room throughout much of July and August. We also got through bags and bags of ice just to stave off heatstroke. The heatwave was literally unbearable (and I like summer weather usually). Trying to divide people/regions like this for your own benefit isn't going to work.

I've never owned a tumble drier and lived in my flats my whole life until 2018. There is no point trying to score these points, everyone has their own 'needs' from their own point of view. Tumble driers are definitely not a necessity.

One of the more sensible suggestions I've seen, I'd back this idea.

Isn't part of the problem that the people with least have higher bills due to poor insulation, damp and old inefficient goods

Our heating normally runs Oct-April and it can be minus temps for a majority of the winter. So it does need to be fairly managed or it means people is colder areas get shafted in winter.

I lived in my council flat for about 7years and only had the tumble drier for about 2 of those. Buy a clothes airer or hang coat hangers on door frames like the rest of us?

Social housing rent here for a two bed is £720 pcm.

But by using a tiered energy method means that I’ll save money by insulating my home as my bills would reduce, so the government doesn’t need to introduce incentives, the tiered billing system is the incentive.

Obviously ed Davey and Keir starmer and others have proposed capping unit costs for electricity and gas for the short term. Perhaps only subsiding related to the average use may be workable.

Longer term moves are afoot to decouple electricity prices from gas. At present renewable nuclear etc are also paid gas price related units.

Even more longer term I suppose it might be possible to introduce a tiered rate based on the baseline of electricity generation with higher usage households having to pay unit costs in line with the costs of meeting surges in the grid with gas etc.