NHS should charge people

[Brideandpredjudice]

AIBU to think that people should be charged a fee for wasting the time and resources of the NHS and to think this might help with some of the current problems?

I was just reading a thread where someone had purposely done something that they shouldn't have done before their appointment, which meant it couldn't go ahead. Why do people think this is okay?

We can't continue to have a free health service if it's misused like this and perhaps the only way to deter people would be with a fine. No idea if or how this would work in actuality and how they would police genuine mistakes from accidents, but it's so infuriating. They should at least be pushed back to the bottom of the queue.

I recently had to pay for an appointment because the waiting list was over 12 months. I wonder how much shorter it would be without all the missed appointments etc.

It would cost more to administer than it would bring in. Who would pick up the tab?

But they can’t all afford this. My grandmother’s pension is horrendously small. Women of a certain age who didn’t work for a majority of their lives (ie SAHM) have a very small pension.

You think we are going broke in the UK because users of the NHS over 65yrs no longer pay NI. Fucking hell, it’s you who needs a reality check.

The "I paid in all my life" brigade really gets on my nerves in the UK.
I agree.
They're right up there with the 'worked hard all my life' lot. So what, that's what most people do, it's nothing special. It's even spouted my those who most definitely didn't work hard all their lives.

Fucking horrible ageist post.
They've probably already paid in 50 years contributions and according to you not used the service.

Well, I think it's quite reasonable for someone who has paid 40+ years to expect the same level of service as those who have made less contributions.

My NI contributions spanned 46 years, the last few years of that time I was a higher rate tax payer and I still pay tax. In almost 70 years my NHS use has been two births and a gallbladder removal. I never go to the doctor and take no prescription drugs. Perhaps someone would tell me how it can be that any future NHS use needs more than I already pay/have paid?

I think they should charge prople who refuse to accept medical opiion and drag it through every court, appeal procediure...
the court costs, hospital costs of wasted life support, and the admin time wasted in presenting at court cases.

Well that’s me told then. I only popped on to reassure a previous poster that despite my great age I am still contributing to the national fiscal purse through a number of cunning schemes devised by the government to prise money out of my pensions ( yes, I have more than one, life time of working doncha know) through income tax, VAT, petrol tax, council tax, wine and spirits tax, insurance tax,road fund tax and a few others I have probably forgotten about. So, sorry I no longer pay NI, but proportionate to my income I think I am paying a fair whack, which incidentally isn’t earmarked by the government for my own support but for the support of the next generation, so enjoy spending my contribution all you 30 to 40 year olds, I send it to you with love.

I’m actually really surprised at this post. You’ve been here a long time @Kendodd and this is totally out of character, you’re normally measured and reasonable.

They paid NI for 45 years.
During those 45 years they probably didn't use the NHS but their contributions funded the over 65s of the day.
It's how a society works.

This post shows just how ignorant about demographics most of you are.

In 2035, 25% of the population will be over 65

Do you know what happens when the ratio of workers (16 - 64) to over 65s get so skewed and the over 65s do not have to pay?

Country goes broke. Do not pass go. Spending simply stops.

There is literally no way for society to pay for the over 65s pensions and healthcare at the same time.

Do you folks not realise this?

Brexit massively limited immigratiom of younger folks who pay into the system but do not have a high utilization rate.

It continually astonishes me how little you folks understand basic demographic facts.

Can't wait to see the crying and wah wah wah in about 10 years.

US system here we come. Pay up at source.

NI can easily be graduated for the over 65s.

Its a form of insurance.

Its how it works in ALL developed western countries.

The grey vote is slowly economically suffocating the UK and it is not going to end well.

I'm in Spain. We don't pay. There aren't any free prescriptions really, but we are talking a euro or two. But we don't pay for appointments or anything like that, it's completely free at the point of service. We pay through our nation insurance (which admittedly is higher than in UK). But worth it.

Great, in theory - would not work, in practice.

There are a whole host of reasons why people miss appointments. They could be mental health related or a case of genuinely forgetting. I know a case of someone who did not turn up for their appointment because they could not afford the car parking charges!

You also mention about people being charged who use the NHS for non-urgent matters. While it is annoying that such people would do that, you cannot escape from the fact that people have different levels of what they would consider urgent. And this works both ways: someone who has a pain in their chest, thinking it is indigestion but it later turns out to be heart related, as an example.

I manage a few different teams. One of the teams I manage are responsible for finding out why people did not turn up for their appointment. I can't ever recall someone saying because they couldn't be bothered.

While it is VERY frustrating that people DNA, especially when appointments for the particular department I work in have a very long waiting list, fining those who don't turn up, or fining those who attend A&E on a whim, will further set back a certain demograph of people (in my opinion) and it would seem to be those who are already struggling.

I know when my children were babies, and poorly, I did use the emergency dept, only to be sent away with Calpol.

I have worked in the NHS for over 20 years and I would hate it to be a 'only the strongest survive' scenario, i.e., those who can afford to make their appointment, those without mental health issues, those who can afford the car parking charges.

Prolific DNA-ers should be discharged after missing a certain amount of appointments and, in some departments, are. And those who use the service for something they could have waited until they saw their GP, should not make a habit of it. But, as I said earlier, there are a number of easons behind this, rather than simply not being bothered, IMHO.

You do have some say, the appointment letter goes out, with all the contact information and if you can’t commit to that date you call / email and change it.

Pretty sure (the majority) of this age bracket have been paying for the NHS and other social security all their lives. They're not sponging off of us.

That's your problem though. Not the NHS's

Murdoch1949 · Yesterday 18:01
You can obviously afford to pay for private treatment as can I. However I am morally against queue jumping by paying for private appointments. People who miss appointments may have complex needs that cause them to fail to attend. Do not judge others until you fully understand their circumstances.

paying isn’t queue jumping. If I pay to go private it’s at a different hospital with staff who have nothing to do with the local hospital

I think for me charging for missed appointments or whatever becomes more of a barrier for those needing help who are vulnerable. Like, if they've got to travel for x amount of time of public transport and can hardly afford to do that, if they're dealing with mh stuff or any other illness that means that day they can't get and can't communicate that day or whatever.
I agree re doing things you purposefully shouldn't but idk how you'd police and enforce fines for things like that. It's so tricky.

We’ve put on some extra clinics at my work recently, a third to a half didn’t turn up at each one, and they’d had a reminder text twice before the clinic.

For your information @BambinaJAS as a working pensioner I pay far more tax then the tax and NI combined I paid when I was working age tax that - wait for it- pays towards the NHS, in fact every pensioner with a private pension or who still work pays tax which goes towards the NHS .And you cant even get your facts right can you as you seem to be using outdated Information, you see its NOT 65 when people stop paying NI its pension age currently 66.Oh and I WILL be paying NI from next year in the form of the social care levy

Tell me would you have the same opinion about disabled people or people with long term health conditions who have never been able to work and pay NI and tax accessing NHS care, or would you want them to pay NI out of their disability/sickness benefits the same you seem to want a pensioner disabled and with health conditions due to old age and infirmity to pay NI out of their pensions.

You seem to be just another pathetic pensioner basher and God knows there are a lot them on mumsnet

paying isn’t queue jumping. If I pay to go private it’s at a different hospital with staff who have nothing to do with the local hospital

This isn't true, not always at least. I paid to go to the exact same place and be seen by the exact same people. Just meant I waited 4 days instead of 12 months. I see no problem with what I did. My care was unavailable on the NHS (I wouldn't count waiting a year as available), so I paid for it. That's not to say my heart doesn't go out to those who can't pay, but when it's my health at stake I had to put myself first. Can't be a martyr if I'm not here.

Really @WhatIsThisPlease and how would that have worked in the situation I was in 3 years ago, I had what is usually a common condition easily treated by over the counter medication only it didn't I went to my GP twice about it the last time he said it was a virus, when my husband found me virtually collapsed a week later he took me to A&E, the Triage nurse decided I was wasting NHS time refused to let me see a Dr and told me to go back to my GP I got an emergency appointment the next day with a nurse who went and got the same GP who said I had a virus, I will NEVER forget the shocked expression on his face when he saw me due to the amount of weight I had lost in a week he gave me a letter for A&E, well its a good thing he did I had SEPSIS if I had waited even for one more day I could have died, so you think that triage nurse who has mistakenly accused me of wasting NHS time should have been allowed to have me sit waiting for 5-6 hours and then charge me £100 because SHE didn't believe I needed to be in A&E when I actually had a life threatening condition, I would have raised a complaint but to be honest the hospital were brilliant and saved my life once I was under their care and I am grateful

I'd love to live in your parallel universe. The mere idea of being able to email to change an appointment! Not around here. We get letters with a phone number. Usually, the phone isn't answered, and we have to leave an answerphone message, then usually, have to phone the next day, and the next, because they havn't rung us back. Sometimes we've even had letters with a phone number that doesn't even ring out (when they've changed the number but couldn't be arsed to change the letterhead!).