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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ExH taking me to court over extra contact?

14 replies

HolidayHereWeCome · 27/08/2022 13:35

Share DD aged 8 with ExH, split when she was 3.

He has her EOWend for 1 night there is a CAO and he’s supposed to have a tea on a Wednesday but gave it up during covid and never took it up again (I have offered it back). He also technically has 2 weeks in the summer holidays and an extra 3 days at Christmas. He always takes the Christmas contact but very rarely has more than an extra few hours over the summer. He’s supposed to give me 6 weeks’ notice for the summer contact and I am allowed to say no and offer an alternative – the Christmas contact is sat dates within the CAO.

In March he messaged to ask if he could have DD for an overnight during the last week of summer holidays (5th and 6th September – back to school on 8th). I said no as we’re on holiday until 6th (go on Thursday) but offered anytime in the 4 weeks preceeding our holiday.

He insisted it had to be 5th and 6th as there’s something going on with his family that DD needs to be there for but I’d already booked my holiday by then.

So he’s taken me to court for a specific issues order. I’m not going abroad so he can’t get a prohibited steps. Court is on Tuesday. My solicitor thinks I’ve got a good chance of them letting me take DD away as it’s preplanned and the CAO says I am allowed to say no to extra summer contact as long as I offer an alternative but I’m terrified, and have said that if they stop me taking her I will be going for a financial order for reimbursement of the holiday costs – Solicitor told me not to offer this unless it looks like we’re going to lose in court because then he’s “won”.

For context I left him due to violence and control, he took me to court for the CAO and now the SIO. I have once before turned down extra contact when we first had the CAO as I was on holiday, again I offered an alternative which he took, all other times he’s asked for extra whether summer or not I’ve always found a compromise with him i.e. him having her slightly later than he wanted so she can go to a party or her doing something for her activities. Solicitor thinks he now thinks he has control and can dictate.

I’m terrified, I haven’t told DD about the holiday in case they don’t let me take her. I have evidence it was booked before he asked me for the extra contact – I booked it in December and the email with the hotel and train tickets on both state the date and time of booking, I also have evidence of my time off request from work which I made before booking the holiday. Solicitor has submitted all these to the courts, his counter evidence is the invite to his families event but there's no date on it.

Someone reassure me it’ll be ok? We will get our holiday. It’s just me and her so could come back on Sunday 4th but I really don’t want to as I’m visiting another family member who lives in the area and Sunday trains will be a nightmare. I could drive to the holiday but DD absolutely loves the trains and finds it much more exciting and part of her holiday now, she knows once we're at the station her holiday has started (she has some minor SN)

OP posts:
Ponoka7 · 27/08/2022 13:40

I could only see him being awarded the contact if it was exceptional circumstances such as a GP was dying etc. This might be to your advantage because the judge will spell out that you are a working resident parent and need good notice. His contact notice is already set out and he isn't sticking to it.

RainbowSlaw · 27/08/2022 13:42

I think the proof you have that it was pre-booked, and that you offered alternatives are helpful and I'd think your odds are good.

Ultimately though I think you need to try and hold onto the fact that either outcome is a good one for your DD - she gets the whole surprise holiday, or she gets a short surprise holiday and to go to a family event and spend quality time with paternal family. Both of these versions are lovely for her, and hopefully being able to hold onto that will help manage some of your own worries in the lead up to court.

NoSquirrels · 27/08/2022 13:45

Did you try to move the dates at all?

I don’t know what a court will say, and yes from your POV you’re allowed to say no and you offered alternative dates.

But playing devil’s advocate, from his POV he asked 6 months in advance and he cannot change the dates as it’s a family occasion (assuming wedding or similar).

So if I was in his position I’d hope you’d help me out by trying to move your holiday a few days earlier so you were back in time. I’d have agreed to compensate you any fees for amending the booking.

I also understand he’s a shit dad generally and you left for abuse so I appreciate he’s not reasonable. I’m just not sure if I’m this specific scenario it can’t be argued that you could have helped avoid court?

Really hope you get your holiday with DD.

Original poster
HolidayHereWeCome · 27/08/2022 13:49

NoSquirrels · 27/08/2022 13:45

Did you try to move the dates at all?

I don’t know what a court will say, and yes from your POV you’re allowed to say no and you offered alternative dates.

But playing devil’s advocate, from his POV he asked 6 months in advance and he cannot change the dates as it’s a family occasion (assuming wedding or similar).

So if I was in his position I’d hope you’d help me out by trying to move your holiday a few days earlier so you were back in time. I’d have agreed to compensate you any fees for amending the booking.

I also understand he’s a shit dad generally and you left for abuse so I appreciate he’s not reasonable. I’m just not sure if I’m this specific scenario it can’t be argued that you could have helped avoid court?

Really hope you get your holiday with DD.

@NoSquirrels Work wouldn't let me change my time off to earlier even in March as they'd sorted rotas out by then so barring an emergency I can't move my holiday.

Looks like we may have to come home earlier and drive it instead of trains if it comes down to it then.

OP posts:
forrestgreen · 27/08/2022 13:53

Maybe ask for a work letter stating you asked to move your holidays by a week but that was unacceptable for business reasons.

HeckyPeck · 27/08/2022 13:59

I think you'll be fine. You booked before he asked for his contact and the CAO says your allowed to say no to summer days and suggest alternatives which you have done.

I agree with a PP who said they'll likely only agree if it's an emergency, i.e. saying goodbye to a dying relative or a funeral etc.

His family visit doesn't trump your booked and paid for visit.

ChimChimeny · 27/08/2022 14:18

Yes he did ask in March but he's left it until the last minute to be a twat about it.

I don't have any knowledge but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you get your holiday as planned 🤞🏻

RandomMess · 27/08/2022 14:24

Do you know what the event is, did he try and negotiate offer anything else to help?

I don't think he'll win if he has booked something before getting agreement from you that is on him.

Original poster
HolidayHereWeCome · 27/08/2022 14:29

RandomMess · 27/08/2022 14:24

Do you know what the event is, did he try and negotiate offer anything else to help?

I don't think he'll win if he has booked something before getting agreement from you that is on him.

@RandomMess It's a party (think like big birthday, big anniversary etc.) the invite says "To ExH and DD" with the date of the party but no date of when he recieved the invite.

OP posts:
forinborin · 27/08/2022 14:33

OP, I would like to offer some reassurance but really it might go either way.

I am at the court regularly re contact, and one things that judges absolutely don't care is your work or personal commitments. I had both holidays cancelled at the last moment and regular handover times set in the middle of the working day, only because dad produces a dramatic speech at the court about how much he wants to spend time with the children and isn't Dad more important than Disneyland?

Even when there's a long, and verified history of requesting contact and then simply not turning up. The magistrates are human and still fall for the performance every time. Last time we lost a holiday last summer when the father has requested to see the children with a weeks notice (after being radio silent for months). Still was granted despite tickets booked on our side, and him knowing about it.

Chdjdn · 27/08/2022 14:36

It doesn’t really matter when he was invited to the party as it’s when he asked you that is more important; do you have a record that this was after you booked it? Would be surprised if they gave it to him when yours was booked first

Original poster
HolidayHereWeCome · 27/08/2022 14:39

Chdjdn · 27/08/2022 14:36

It doesn’t really matter when he was invited to the party as it’s when he asked you that is more important; do you have a record that this was after you booked it? Would be surprised if they gave it to him when yours was booked first

@Chdjdn Yes he text me in March so my solicitor submitted that to the court as well.

OP posts:
ChimChimeny · 27/08/2022 15:20

forinborin · 27/08/2022 14:33

OP, I would like to offer some reassurance but really it might go either way.

I am at the court regularly re contact, and one things that judges absolutely don't care is your work or personal commitments. I had both holidays cancelled at the last moment and regular handover times set in the middle of the working day, only because dad produces a dramatic speech at the court about how much he wants to spend time with the children and isn't Dad more important than Disneyland?

Even when there's a long, and verified history of requesting contact and then simply not turning up. The magistrates are human and still fall for the performance every time. Last time we lost a holiday last summer when the father has requested to see the children with a weeks notice (after being radio silent for months). Still was granted despite tickets booked on our side, and him knowing about it.

That's disgraceful, hopefully you don't have much longer until you can stop dealing with the bell end

Original poster
HolidayHereWeCome · 27/08/2022 15:32

forinborin · 27/08/2022 14:33

OP, I would like to offer some reassurance but really it might go either way.

I am at the court regularly re contact, and one things that judges absolutely don't care is your work or personal commitments. I had both holidays cancelled at the last moment and regular handover times set in the middle of the working day, only because dad produces a dramatic speech at the court about how much he wants to spend time with the children and isn't Dad more important than Disneyland?

Even when there's a long, and verified history of requesting contact and then simply not turning up. The magistrates are human and still fall for the performance every time. Last time we lost a holiday last summer when the father has requested to see the children with a weeks notice (after being radio silent for months). Still was granted despite tickets booked on our side, and him knowing about it.

@forinborin I'm so sorry, but this doesn't surprise me and fills me with dread, I don't have any trust in the courts, we were in court for over 2 years for the CAO cost me over £20k so it doesn't surprise me.

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