that Russia flaring off gas is a sick joke

[LargeDeviation]

It really sticks in the throat seeing Putin burn off gas just to avoid delivering it to Europe. Not only is it a massive waste, the soot from the flares will fall on the Arctic and exacerbate the polar ice cap melting.

Yes, Michael Fallon was totally inept closing down even the small gas storage facility we have, and generally governments going back decades should have built more strategic storage facilities for oil and gas which can be filled up when the price is low.

But I think too many people are forgetting that the real cause of the huge rise in gas prices is Putin's pathetic war, and he is deliberately using his position in the European gas market to try to dampen support for Ukraine. If his tactics work and we lose the political will for supplying Ukraine with weapons and aid, this game will be played not just this year but again and again and again.

This^^
Who benefits from a massive hike in the wholesale cost of gas? That would be Russia, who are now selling their newly expensive energy to India and China (piped to the East via the newly completed pipeline in Sakhalin...which Shell UK helped Putin to build). But sure, just keep throwing money at a unwinnable war rather than engage in diplomacy or compromise. After all, that worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan. 🙄

What ever you take from this thread, please, please no longer believe that it's ok to burn gas in your kitchen because you can wipe up the resultant soot, thus saving the polar ice caps from sootiness.

Please understand that you will be releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere which you cannot wipe up. Carbon dioxide is a called a greenhouse gas, because like a greenhouse, it can store heat. This is what is melting the polar ice caps.

NB. Trees can help wipe up carbon dioxide. They take it in during photosynthesis, and release oxygen. Oxygen is not a greenhouse gas.

Please don't blame yourselves if you didn't know these facts. They should be taught at primary schools, they are so simple and so fundamental.

@strawberriesarenot Of course fossil fuels produce carbon dioxide when burnt, which causes global warming. That is surely everyday knowledge.

However the soot causes extra acceleration of melting ice caps. Quoting from the end of this article:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62652133?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

But as well as releasing about 9,000 tonnes of CO2 equivalent every day from this flare, the burning causes other significant issues.

Black carbon is the name given to the sooty particles that are produced through the incomplete burning of fuels like natural gas.

"Of particular concern with flaring at Arctic latitudes is the transport of emitted black carbon northward where it deposits on snow and ice and significantly accelerates melting," said Prof Matthew Johnson, from Carleton University in Canada.

"Some highly cited estimates already put flaring as the dominant source of black carbon deposition in the Arctic and any increases in flaring in this region are especially unwelcome."

Putin needs his nasty little head wobbled. Can't say anything else.

LargeDeviation

Thank you, yes, I did know that. I'm sorry that your remarks on the soot in your kitchen made me think that perhaps you (and other people) might not.
(I doubt there is very much soot in your kitchen, because your burners should be set for a clean burn). However, the problem with carbon dioxide remains the same.

Let us hope for the end of Putin. And for whoever takes over afterwards to at least have children and grandchildren that he cares about.

👏🏼

The whole war is causing massive pollution, not to mention the nuclear risk.
I wish we would put a tenth of the effort into forcing negotiations that we do into slinging in more arms. And I also wish we had no isolated re. sports, arts etc. We need to keep communications open with ordinary Russians, we need them to continue to want what the west and democracy has to offer

I agree - I think the hysteria going on at the moment about visas for Russians is also misplaced. They are not responsible for Putin, it's not like they have free and fair elections is it?

Yeah. It’s just Putin flexing, isn’t it? A PR thing. And yes, he has it all his way. No one can invade Russia, so he’s safe. He’s got a thing about Ukraine he’s indulging, and can’t be opposed because of the UN thing and is indirectly reminding the West that they need Russian energy. So when the Ukraine is defeated (and how can they not be, if no one can help them?), he’ll have made the west a bit more amenable to whatever it is he wants in future. A little bit more careful to keep Russia happy. He doesn’t care what ordinary people want, Russian or not, because Russia isn’t (as I superficially understand it) a real democracy. So he doesn’t have to keep the people happy. The Tories don’t care either, but they have to look like they do, or they won’t get voted back in. So we pressure our government over energy prices on Puitn’s behalf, so they’ll negotiate with Russia and Putin can sell us cheaper energy that can make money for Boris et al and Putin, even though neither Putin nor the Tories give a flying fuck about whether or not we can afford to be warm, because none of them count us as real people. Just units of production. If it goes on long enough and people start dying here, someone will crack to stay in power, won’t they?

We only have ourselves to blame for becoming so dependent on Russia for gas. It meant pre-war there were no sanctions that had any real impact as Russia had the upper hand with threatening to retaliate against sanctions by turning off the gas.

We have had years and years to invest properly in renewables. More gas is not the answer if we want to see the next century.

I'd rather the UK stopped supporting Ukraine. Id rather Putin than these massive bills.

Once again, humans destroy their habitat. We are like a plague.

Yep, totally agree with that.

It is awful but if we give in then he'll have us over a barrel. It's giving into blackmail and next time he'll be empowered to do exactly the same.

I didn’t realise it was excess not being used

Still upsetting to hear about

He’s a pain for the whole world to deal with

I agree. Sadly, it is also the habitat of every other living thing that we are destroying, life that is potentially unique to this one planet. The harm humanity is causing is incalculable.

@Isitsixoclockalready

Heronimo
I'd rather the UK stopped supporting Ukraine. Id rather Putin than these massive bills.

It is awful but if we give in then he'll have us over a barrel. It's giving into blackmail and next time he'll be empowered to do exactly the same.

+++

Actually I don't think there will be a next time. Firstly Russia has received a massive military mauling in Ukraine and really isn't in a position to try an take the whole of Ukraine let alone invade anywhere else.

Secondly if there is no thing the Ukrainian crisis has taught Europe is that they are over dependent on Russian gas, something to be fair the United States has been warning against for 30 years but was dismissed as post Cold War warmongering and anti Russian.

Thirdly you can bet that post this crisis every European nation is going to focus on renewables and energy security and not being dependent on Russian gas.

Lastly Zelensky's stated aim is the return of Crimea to Ukraine. Ukraine is made up of 65% Russians and was part of Russia from 1783 until 1991 when it was independent until 1995 when it was forcibly abolished by Ukraine and incorporated into Ukraine Until 2014 when it first declared independence from Ukraine and then through a disputed referendum reunified with Russia.

So in short - is it reasonable that we all suffer from unaffordable energy bills and double digit inflation just so Zelensky can have Crimea back when out of the last 240 years it has been independent for 4 years, Ukrainian for 19 years and Russian for 217 years? Oh and it's populated by 65% Russians?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

You what? So all this is Zelensky’s fault? Somehow he forced Putin to invade the rest of Ukraine because he wasn’t gracious enough about them annexing Crimea. Interesting take.

Seeing a pattern? All we need to do is follow the money.

This is realpolitik, not some good vs evil battle.

Yep. It's laughably naive to think Putin is going to make nice and play ball if he's allowed Ukraine. This boil needs to be lanced now.

Time Putin was assassinated

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife

"You what? So all this is Zelensky’s fault? Somehow he forced Putin to invade the rest of Ukraine because he wasn’t gracious enough about them annexing Crimea. Interesting take."

+++

No this is all very much Putin's fault, I don't know where in my post that you read I was suggesting this is somehow Zelensky's fault?

It is however a stated war aim of Zelensky to have the return of Crimea to Ukraine in order to have a peace deal. He and Ukraine are entitled to have whatever war aims they wish.

However in my opinion that is an unrealistic war aim that the Russia will hand over territory that is 65% Russian population and has been part of Russia for 217 years out of the last 240 years.

Also in my opinion I do not support the destruction of Europe's economy, the impoverishment of its people and excess deaths this winter as a result of unaffordable energy bills all in support of that unrealistic war aim.

OK, sorry. So not his fault that the war started, just his fault that it won’t end any time soon, despite the fact that Russia currently controls far, far more of Ukraine than just Crimea and is showing no signs of giving up any of that.

you’re also assuming that him saying he wants Crimea back isn’t just an opening negotiating tactic.

Whilst dictators tend not to be removed in peaceful ways or live comfortable retirements.

If Putin was indeed removed then it is most likely that he will be replaced with someone with a similar mindset and approach to Ukraine.

"OK, sorry. So not his fault that the war started, just his fault that it won’t end any time soon, despite the fact that Russia currently controls far, far more of Ukraine than just Crimea and is showing no signs of giving up any of that.

you’re also assuming that him saying he wants Crimea back isn’t just an opening negotiating tactic."

++++

Again not Zelensky's fault that the war won't end anytime soon.

That fault lies with the west in particular Biden and Boris Johnson who have both publicly declared that they will support Zelensky both politically and militarily to achieve whatever war aims Zelensky has. France is alone in continuing dialogue with Putin in the hope of a ceasefire/ peace deal.

Russia is getting militarily mauled in Ukraine and wants a negotiated peace. The problem is with unequivocal support from Biden and the UK, Zelensky has no incentive to compromise on any peace deal which pragmatically is what is needed here.

Otherwise the war will just go on and on as per the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts.