AIBU to think Chemistry A Level is essential?

[Mooda]

Long time lurker, first post - for traffic - sorry I know this is a niche post but could do with quick advice from anyone working in scientific field.

DS has just got excellent GCSE results. After a slow start he worked hard and became really enthusiastic about chemistry and physics. He was planning to do maths, physics & chemistry A levels and Spanish AS. However DD has (unhelpfully) convinced him that AS Spanish will be too difficult to do in a year so he's now decided to do the full Spanish ALevel and downgrade Chemistry to AS.

He thinks AS Chemistry will be enough if he wants to do it at uni/ pursue a career in pharmaceutical science, food production etc (which are current ideas but obvs at 16 not a firm decision) but a quick google suggests he would have more options in these fields with the full A Level.

Can anyone offer advice - would AS Chemistry rather than full A Level cut off related career paths? Thanks

Given how narrow the A-levels are here, i.e. 3 subjects, are the students given any guidance on picking their field of interest?
I'm Irish and we study 7 to A level equivalent usually (slightly lower level than A level equivalent perhaps) but you can keep your options open by studying business subjects, sciences, languages etc. Your top 6 Leaving Cert results count (you're generally advised to study an extra subject in case you perform badly at one exam). The Irish system gives you a very broad spectrum education to a high level. I've noticed it with British people that if they've only studied certain sectors (such as humanities or business subjects) they generally have not got a clue about science concepts.

There are arguments for and against both systems, but I think with the British system, given how narrow your field is at 16, they really need some heavy input at that age.

I've looked up what a 9 is and it's and A, so he did extremely well. Incredibly well.

I know that for things like Medicine, first year meds who hadn't studied all three sciences to Leaving Certificate struggled a bit in the first year of university.
I did the three sciences and went on to study a business degree with languages!!!!!!!!

My degree in biological sciences had a chemistry requirement as more important than biology. So I’d say A-level chemistry would be the most important of all the A-levels.
Maybe he could do AS spanish and if he’s not ready to do the exam do it when he sits his A levels.

I agree Chemistry a level is required. However I don’t understand the comment about the Spanish AS being too hard to do in a year? I thought the AS was the first year of the course so he will always be doing that in a year, the question is just whether he takes into the second year.

Granted it’s been a few years since my A Levels, but I did Spanish GCSE in one year alongside 3 other AS levels and then did AS and A level Spanish in one year alongside French, Maths and English and came out with AAAB in my A levels, so it is most definitely doable on a way more compressed timeline then he’s even considering now…

Exactly. To make the blanket statement either way is a bit silly.

I worked in pharmaceutical research, and with industry pharmacists for most of my career. Relative is a hospital pharmacist

if interested in pharmaceutical sciences then he needs A level chemistry. That’s a no brainer. I’d say maths A level is also a no brainer for scientific career. Then biology A level is probably more useful and easier than physics unless he wants to keep options open around pure chemistry at degree level or engineering . I found picking up genetics and biomedical science hard at uni without biology A level- they said it wasn’t necessary for those module options, but bloody hell it took a lot of extra work to basically learn whole segments of biology A level to even understand lectures.

spanish isn’t useful really for science. If he was wanting to do pure chemistry, German might be useful. Or Latin for medicine . But Spanish is a bit on a limb.

Sorry I missed that he's not doing Biology! I would say Biology would be better than Physics for pharmaceuticals/food - I have a biology degree and work in pharma.

Can I ask why he's chosen his specific subjects as they don't really seem to have been chosen with a career in mind? I completely get that he's 16 and has probably just picked what he is most interested in, but I'm surprised that he wants to work in pharmaceuticals or food if bio and/or chem are not in his top 3 A levels.

Can't he start with 4 (quite normal) & take time investigate and decide.

Just a quick Google of entry requirements for a handful of good unis shows chemistry is essential for pharmacology. At least one I looked at won't even count AS results. He'll really be limiting his Science options without it. Hope he sees sense soon (and well done on his results)

I agree with you, op.

I'd also point out that of any subject, languages are the easiest to access later on and once outside full time education.

He thinks AS Chemistry will be enough if he wants to do it at uni/ pursue a career in pharmaceutical science, food production etc (which are current ideas but obvs at 16 not a firm decision)

He should really be doing Chemistry, Biology, Maths and Further Maths if that’s the type of course he’s looking at for Uni. I’d drop Physics and Spanish.

He will need chemistry A level for pharmaceutical careers. I did chemistry, maths and German for A-level and took GCSE Spanish on the side. I dropped biology at A-level, but ended up being in charge of a biology department as well as the chemistry department at one stage of my career!

Hi, OP -

Former Russell Group STEM admissions tutor here. This is an interesting dilemma. I am very much in the 3 A level camp (possibly but far from necessarily with an EPQ). I think your DS needs to work backwards from his interests and goals.

What type of university, or specific universities, does you DS see himself at, or have enthusiasm for? He should look up the admissions requirements for their degree programmes of relevance. I suspect the common denominator will be A level Chemistry. In terms of preparation for his likely degree choices, he cannot go wrong with Maths/Physics/Chemistry.

I also study a foreign language recreationally, and I was educated abroad in a system similar to the Irish or Scottish system studying six subjects. I prefer that, so I have a lot of sympathy for the desire for breadth. But the cold reality is that your DS is very bright and able to compete at excellent RG unis with very high 3 AL offers. To do that he will need to go flat out and be pragmatic. Only if this is what he wants, of course --- I really must emphasise that!

I think he can do Spanish for fun or casually over the long term, rather than try to do it as a qualification.

It makes no sense to downgrade the chemistry if he is interested in STEM careers.

OP I think a language would be extremely beneficial and give him a lot more choices professionally in the future. I know that some medical degrees at really prestigious places offer bridging courses for undergrads they accept without a full science complement and I think your DS will do very well with 2 As and an AS in science anyway.

A-Level language teacher here who's been doing enrolments all day

Focus on Chem and drop Sp for the time being as he can pick up a Lang from scratch / post GCSE if needed at Uni and will still be able to do a year abroad / joint hons degree if that's what he wants.

Students only need 3 subjects (even for Oxbridge) so you need to focus on 3x excellent ones rather than run risk of spreading self too thinly over 4 or a random selection of subjects.

The only thing other than what has been said by posters who under the system here is why you and your daughter are deciding what he should study?

*understand, not under

It's him who will study these subjects and it's him who will apply to courses and it's him who will choose a course and it's him who will study and graduate.
I know that it's enticing to try to impose your views on other people but you've only mentioned what you and your daughter want him to study! What does he want to study?

Just to say, I have an A level Spanish student off to do vet science in September and have previously taught a number of students who have gone on to do medicine. Languages are considered facilitating subjects by universities and shouldn't be discounted because someone has career aspirations in the science field. I would doubly say that if he enjoys it - and it very much sounds like he does.

However, I would suggest speaking to the 6th form because I am in general agreement that he needs to do chemistry if his career aspirations are as you say. I would also say that he might have other ideas where Spanish might be more useful so please do listen to him and try and talk through pros and cons. Yes he can learn Spanish on his own time if that is his goal - but it might be more than that.

Finally, phone or email admissions tutors at a couple.of unis and ask them. They are the people best placed to advise on what they will and won't accept. You might be surprised.

Thanks for all the replies. In the end DS enrolled for maths, physics, chemistry + Spanish AS off his own back without any further conversations.

@Oldcottoneye nobody is choosing his subjects except DS. We're just trying to provide guidance. When you're 16 and good at everything you understandably think whatever you do will be fine. DH and I both made poor choices at 16/18 which have impacted our career options so we were just trying to help DS think through his choices thoroughly without being prescriptive. Not always easy!