To think my mum and brothers relationship is fucking bizarre?

[TheSnowball]

My brother and I are in our 30s. He still lives at home with our mum. I've moved out (thank god!), but had to live with their odd relationship and routine for many years, and according to them, it's still ongoing.

He's always competed with me for her favour, ever since we were kids. But it got worse when our parents separated, it's almost like he's took on the role of being her surrogate husband?

They set their alarm clocks to wake up at the same time as eachother, if one of them has to get up earlier for work, the other one will set their alarm accordingly. They spend hours talking every morning, drive off to work together, drive back home together and then spend 1-2 more hours talking about their day. They don't go anywhere without eachother. They go shopping together, they visit people together. Etc etc.

He agrees with everything she says, hangs onto her every word, she's never in the wrong in his eyes, they slag people off all the time (including me!) and egg eachother on. It's bizarre. I feel awful anxiety speaking to them now because I know when I walk away they're gonna be slagging me off, as always.

Any kind of argument I had with her as a teenager (just normal arguments teenage girls have with their mums), he'd aggressively square up to me, shouting in my face, calling me every name under the sun. She'd then thank him for 'standing up for her', then come and ask me if I was okay and tell me he was out of order ???
I felt suffocated and stifled in my own home for years.
Now I'm not allowed to have any kind of disagreement with her without him involving himself and getting aggressive with me.

I'm not being nosey, it wouldn't bother me at all if it wasn't for the fact that I'm not allowed to have a normal relationship with my own mother. I can't speak to her on her own, she's always with him. He makes it a them vs me situation all the time, and gets confrontational and competitive with me. I have to walk on eggshells and watch what I say.

I lived with them and their behaviour for so long and whenever I tried to bring it up they made out that I was the weird one. But surely it's not just me that thinks this is completely fucking abnormal?

Sounds like a nightmare OP! It’s definitely not the norm and that level of co-dependency can’t be healthy for either of them.

Does not sound at all normal. Is your mum scared of him?

Are they called Norma and Norman?

So weird. I assume your brother doesn't have friends or a partner? Is there something in it for him being the favourite, like inheritance?

Not remotely normal and sounds incredibly unhealthy for both of them.

You wouldn't be unreasonable to invite your mother over without him so you can have time together, though because of their codependancy she might not come.

I'm getting vibes that he's aggressive and maybe frightens her, so she's nice to keep the peace, and it's turned into this creepy codependence. Your brother is extra creepy for not wanting a life of his own.

Grim stuff.

That was what I was thinking. 😁

Watch 'I love a mama's boy' it portrays many relationships like this, although yes, it's unusual.

Not that I know of. They both seem equally as obsessed with eachother.

It could be this although it's hard to say how black or light it is. Ie how happy your DM really is with the situation. Definitely sounds like co-dependency.

The real test is asking one or the other to go somewhere or do something without the other. Your DM could react just as badly as your DB. I'd be testing the waters.

Oh I know I will get jumped on for this and I am a single parent myself so it's not an attack on SPs.

But sometimes I've noticed with friends that are also single parents (not all of them and not to this extent) now our dcs are all 14 plus... that some of them have a weird codependent relationship with their eldest sons and he's in the husband place. It's lovely that they care about their mum so much but I do wonder how their future relationships will be impacted. I tell my dc that just because I'm single doesn't mean they have to stay with me/not go to uni/not have a gap year travelling whereas I get the feeling some of my friends sons feel unable to say they want to go to uni the otherside of the country.

I leave them both the hell alone. They sound unhinged.

Have you thought about just fucking the pair off hem off to get on with it? Just because someone's your blood doesnt mean you have to have them in your life.

It sounds like he felt he had to step up to the plate and support his mother when she separated. That may or may not have been a deliberate decision. He's grown into this role and they're both happy with it. Rightly or wrongly he sees your moving out as confirmation that you are happy with that arrangement.

You say he always competed for favour when a child. That's interesting, because it implies that you were also involved in the competition too. It's hard for someone to "compete" against someone who is not interested in the competition.

I don't think their situation is particularly "abnormal" by any means. It's not the standard behaviour but a lot of adult children stay at home with their parent(s) and provide mutual support.

Oedipus complex

My husband is the second child. His Dad died when he was fairly young, and he had a younger brother . This brother is now in his 50s and still lives at home with my MIL. I think she made it difficult to leave , even though he has tried a few times. Both my DH and I find it very weird but it won't change. My DH's elder sibling has often claimed the mother ruined the life of the youngest , having used him as a subsitute for her late husband.

It sounds exactly like the dynamic between my parents and their treatment of me and my sibling, which is bad enough, but mother and son? No, that is odd, unhealthy for them and toxic for you. I fear you’ll end up being one of us who ends up going NC.

Very weird. Does sound like the premise for a good thriller though.

Yes, that does seem odd.

As you say - the closeness itself, while weird, wouldn't be a problem for you if it didn't impact on your own relationship with your mum, but it clearly does and that's why it's a problem. It's really strange for you not to be able to talk to her without your brother being there.

You are absolutely not the weird one here - they are. I think I would probably be greatly reducing the contact I had with them. I'm not surprised it makes you feel anxious.

That’s when you want to kill your father so you can ( sc….w) your mother. So not really.

It's not only down to your brother though OP, your mum is choosing to remain in this messed up relationship with him and not have a normal relationship with you. You don't have to be part of this toxic dynamic, you can walk away from it all.

Your mum failed both of you as a parent. As a child/teenager she could have put a stop to the aggression and verbal abuse towards you. Instead she chose to reward that behaviour and the competitiveness too. Maybe she likes it. Makes her feel important or something? Narcissistic tendencies? Sounds like the golden child/scapegoat dynamic.

She's been gaslighting you by encouraging his bad behaviour towards you then apologising for it on his behalf. She's the parent! She shouldn't have been apologising on his behalf, she should have been apologising for her own behaviour in allowing it to happen the first time. Then learning from her mistake and ensuring it never happened again.

Definitely messed up that your brother is spousified and TBH that's your mum's doing, she's the parent, she should have stopped it not encouraged it.

Maybe your brother is controlling now but your mum encouraged that personality trait and doesn't seem concerned by it. She's made no effort to get some distance by living separately from him, dating, building friendships, seeing other family members without him present. She seems fine with how things are. I'm not sure I'd paint her as a victim in all this. Seems to me she's getting something from this messed up relationship.

Gosh I think my DS would happily stay co- dependant with mammy in his mind aged 7, thankfully once teenagers most boys change their mind.

In my parents relationship, which sounds exactly the same, my mother isn’t afraid of my dad. My mother is very narcissistic. My dad is controlling and aggressive to others, including me and my sibling, but he is very flaky and weak willed when it comes to my mother. does this sound familiar to you OP?

Does your brother have any special needs? Is he NT?

"You say he always competed for favour when a child. That's interesting, because it implies that you were also involved in the competition too. It's hard for someone to "compete" against someone who is not interested in the competition."

No, what I mean by that is whenever I got any kind of attention from my mother as a child, he would get very angry and upset and cry about how I "didn't deserve it". Bear in mind he's 5 years older than me so I would've needed more attention, being so young at the time.
He used to tell me stories of how he tried to 'suffocate me' in my sleep as a child out of jealousy I think he was lying because I definitely would've known if this happened, but it's still a bizarre thing to say.

I do think that's why he's so hostile and nasty to me now, because I think in his mind I used to be our mums favourite.